Be not drunk with wine...

[One Bad Pig]

Eph. 5:18 (KJV)

This is a familiar verse, much used by those who argue that Christians should not drink alcohol. I got to wondering, however, "What does the Bible mean by 'drunk'"?

Let's look at what it has to say (all verses from the NKJV unless otherwise noted):

Scripture Verse: Gen. 9:21

Then [Noah] drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.

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Scripture Verse: Lam. 4:21

Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, You who dwell in the land of Uz! The cup shall also pass over to you And you shall become drunk and make yourself naked.

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[Hab. 2:15]Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness![/verse]

So if you consume so much alcohol that you take your clothes off, you're drunk.

Scripture Verse: Job 12:25

They grope in the dark without light,
And He makes them stagger like a drunken man.

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Scripture Verse: Is. 24:20

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, And shall totter like a hut; Its transgression shall be heavy upon it, And it will fall, and not rise again.

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Scripture Verse: Is. 29:9

Pause and wonder! Blind yourselves and be blind! They are drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.

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Scripture Verse: Jer. 25:16

And they will drink and stagger and go mad because of the sword that I will send among them.

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If you've consumed so much that you stagger when you try to walk, you're drunk.

Scripture Verse: Is. 19:14

The Lord has mingled a perverse spirit in her midst; And they have caused Egypt to err in all her work, As a drunken man staggers in his vomit.

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Scripture Verse: Jer. 48:26

Make him drunk, Because he exalted himself against the Lord. Moab shall wallow in his vomit, And he shall also be in derision.

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If you've consumed so much that you vomit, that's too much.

Scripture Verse: Is. 28:1

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, Whose glorious beauty is a fading flower Which is at the head of the verdant valleys, To those who are overcome with wine!

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Scripture Verse: Jer. 23:9b

I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the Lord, And because of His holy words.

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If you've consumed so much that you pass out, that's too much.



If you've consumed so much that you don't remember what you did, that's too much.

Scripture Verse: Prov. 23:35

They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?

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If you've consumed so much that you don't feel pain, that's too much.

Scripture Verse: Is. 28:7

But they also have erred through wine, And through intoxicating drink are out of the way; The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink, They are swallowed up by wine, They are out of the way through intoxicating drink; They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

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If you've consumed so much that you can't see straight, that's too much.

Scripture Verse: Prov. 20:1

Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

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If you've consumed so much that you're getting into fights, that's probably too much.

Scripture Verse: Ps. 60:3

You have shown Your people hard things; You have made us drink the wine of confusion.

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If you've consumed so much that you can't think straight, that's probably too much.

[Paula]

Nice overview, what the Bible describes is what I would typically consider to be drunkenness as well. It isn't being merely buzzed or relaxed but rather so intoxicated you don't have proper judgement. Drinking so much that your falling over and getting into fights and can't think properly would lead to disaster, especially for us today with our advanced technology (like in the case of drunk driving).

Now with that in mind, the Bible doesn't seem to advocate complete abstinence although there are cases of individuals abstaining completely. From what I can tell, in moderation alcohol is seen as a positive thing--shared at mealtimes, for medicinal purposes (1 Timothy 5:23), and to commemorate Jesus's death during communion (although modern churches usually substitute grape juice). It is interesting that Jesus's first recorded miracle was turning water into wine (and apparently good quality wine at that!) at a wedding celebration.

[KingsGambit]

It is interesting that Jesus's first recorded miracle was turning water into wine (and apparently good quality wine at that!) at a wedding celebration.

Not only that, it was relatively late in the celebration and many people had likely already had a fair amount to drink.

[Cow Poke]

From what I can tell, in moderation alcohol is seen as a positive thing--shared at mealtimes, for medicinal purposes (1 Timothy 5:23), and to commemorate Jesus's death during communion (although modern churches usually substitute grape juice).

Welch's Grape Juice - which I absolutely love - was "invented" so that the Wesleyan Church would have a non-alcoholic communion element.

[Leonhard]

to commemorate Jesus's death during communion (although modern churches usually substitute grape juice).

[Cow Poke]

A quick aside....

Our Church shares our building with a Lutheran congregation - they meet for worship at 9 AM, we meet at 10:45 AM, and we all get along fine. This arrangement has been going on for about 4 years now, and the original "building use agreement" specified that no alcoholic beverage could be present on our property at any time.

The Lutherans, therefore, utilize a non-alcoholic wine for their communion services. (I don't know why they don't use Welch's grape juice ) Anyway, the Lutherans will often comment to me that they really appreciate our hospitality, but one of the things they look forward to in their new building (which is in the planning stages) is the ability to use real wine. "That non-alcoholic stuff tastes nasty", they say.

!

[rogue06]

Not only that, it was relatively late in the celebration and many people had likely already had a fair amount to drink.

One also has to remember that until very recently water that didn't come from a well or straight from a mountain spring was very polluted and likely to make you sick. In fact in Medieval times in some areas being required to drink water was a penance. Wine was regarded as a safer alternative.

[rogue06]

A quick aside....

Our Church shares our building with a Lutheran congregation - they meet for worship at 9 AM, we meet at 10:45 AM, and we all get along fine. This arrangement has been going on for about 4 years now, and the original "building use agreement" specified that no alcoholic beverage could be present on our property at any time.

The Lutherans, therefore, utilize a non-alcoholic wine for their communion services. (I don't know why they don't use Welch's grape juice ) Anyway, the Lutherans will often comment to me that they really appreciate our hospitality, but one of the things they look forward to in their new building (which is in the planning stages) is the ability to use real wine. "That non-alcoholic stuff tastes nasty", they say.

!

Interesting. Being from the western Great Lakes region I have a lot of Lutheran relatives and have attended a good many Lutheran services. The wine that they serve during communion is not non-alcoholic. Not very good tasting either.

[Leonhard]

The Lutherans, therefore, utilize a non-alcoholic wine for their communion services.

How can it be wine if it isn't fermented grape juice?

[Leonhard]

!

I certainly pray that the jews will realize the true nature of the temple, and fulfill their covenant by becoming Christians.

[One Bad Pig]

Interesting. Being from the western Great Lakes region I have a lot of Lutheran relatives and have attended a good many Lutheran services. The wine that they serve during communion is not non-alcoholic. Not very good tasting either.

I'm guessing that CP's church has some sort of agreement that no alcohol is allowed in the building.

The wine my parish uses tastes pretty good. We get it from a Jewish vintner.

[Cow Poke]

I certainly pray that the jews will realize the true nature of the temple, and fulfill their covenant by becoming Christians.

I'll drink to that.

[Leonhard]

I'll drink to that.

[Cow Poke]

How can it be wine if it isn't fermented grape juice?

I'm not a wineriest, but there certainly are a lot of non-alcoholic wines available.

[Leonhard]

I don't drink but I've had many good pub experiences with a group of fellow Catholics after the sunday mass. You buy the pastor beer, and have a nice discussion of what's going on in the Church and quite often theology. The amount people drink is moderate. They blush, speak more passionately, unwind and its generally a good experience. It opens up and takes up a greater meaning than merely the buzz for its own sake.

Those kind of experiences can be good.

Then of course there's there's ascetic monasticism where you swear off anything like that, and most Earthly pleasures and enter a life of silence, prayer, fasting and penance. I've only experienced a life like that for twenty days. It might not be a life I can live, but anyone who has the chance to enter a monastery and do that should. If only for a retreat.