Christian Origins and the Question of God

[Wildflower]

I spent most of Christian life "off" myself...and am likely still "off" on things. God did not give up on me...I will not give up on others with whom I can relate so well....

[hedrick]

Is the difference between the historic first century Jewish Christian perspective and the modern American Christian perspective especially troubling to you? Why or why not?

No. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in ancient Rome, nor in 1st Cent Palestine. I wouldn’t want to undo the Enlightenment or everything we’ve discovered since. It does mean we have to do some work applying Scripture to our context, but that’s why Jesus gave the Church the authority of loosing and binding.

Do you find it difficult to attend a church that has no understanding of the original context/understanding?

I certainly wouldn’t attend such a church. Wright’s work is just the most recent version of what mainline scholarship has been doing since the 18th Cent. I wouldn’t consider attending a Church that doesn’t use such scholarship.

[Wildflower]

No. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in ancient Rome, nor in 1st Cent Palestine. I wouldn’t want to undo the Enlightenment or everything we’ve discovered since. It does mean we have to do some work applying Scripture to our context, but that’s why Jesus gave the Church the authority of loosing and binding.



I certainly wouldn’t attend such a church. Wright’s work is just the most recent version of what mainline scholarship has been doing since the 18th Cent. I wouldn’t consider attending a Church that doesn’t use such scholarship.

Thanks for the reply. May I ask which books from Wright you have read?

[hedrick]

Mostly shorter ones

After you believe
For All God's Worth
Hos God Became King
Scripture and the authority of God
Simply Christian
Surprised by Hope

Also some of Jesus and the Victory of God, but I don't have them handy.

[myth]

Yes.

I would, yes.

I became Orthodox.

Would you mind summarizing what about Orthodoxy attracted you?

[hedrick]

Based on the situations described in Paul's letters, I don't think he would be surprised by the current situation. His letters suggest independent congregations with various Christian leaders traveling around trying to convince the congregations of their point of view. Not so different from today.

[One Bad Pig]

Would you mind summarizing what about Orthodoxy attracted you?

Its organic connection to the early church was the initial draw (interestingly enough, this sense developed primarily from reading N. T. Wright's which are the topic of this thread and from an online series of courses at Reclaiming the Mind - neither of which promote Orthodoxy per se). The tipping point came when I felt simultaneously pulled by the Holy Spirit that way and unexpectedly repelled by my old church; I had been content to remain a Southern Baptist until then, even if I didn't always care for the praise & worship music which was increasinly replacing hymns. I now very much appreciate Orthodoxy's structured prayers and the sacrament of confession (it's not easy confessing my sins, but I feel so much better afterward).

[myth]

Its organic connection to the early church was the initial draw (interestingly enough, this sense developed primarily from reading N. T. Wright's which are the topic of this thread and from an online series of courses at Reclaiming the Mind - neither of which promote Orthodoxy per se). The tipping point came when I felt simultaneously pulled by the Holy Spirit that way and unexpectedly repelled by my old church; I had been content to remain a Southern Baptist until then, even if I didn't always care for the praise & worship music which was increasinly replacing hymns. I now very much appreciate Orthodoxy's structured prayers and the sacrament of confession (it's not easy confessing my sins, but I feel so much better afterward).

Ok, thanks. I find myself interested in Orthodoxy, though I don't know very much at all about it. I'm not really sure what you'd call me now. I was raised Southern Baptist, and while I mostly still identify that way, I do disagree on some issues.

[One Bad Pig]

Ok, thanks. I find myself interested in Orthodoxy, though I don't know very much at all about it. I'm not really sure what you'd call me now. I was raised Southern Baptist, and while I mostly still identify that way, I do disagree on some issues.

Bishop Kallistos Ware wrote a good introduction called "The Orthodox Church."

[myth]

Ok, thanks.

[Wildflower]

Based on the situations described in Paul's letters, I don't think he would be surprised by the current situation. His letters suggest independent congregations with various Christian leaders traveling around trying to convince the congregations of their point of view. Not so different from today.

There were indeed different points of view. But don't you think a distinction can be made between those views which were and are Jewish-Christian and those that lost their Jewish roots altogether? Can Christianity be properly understood without properly understanding its Jewish roots? How far can modern Christianity go from its roots before it becomes a different plant?

[One Bad Pig]

There were indeed different points of view. But don't you think a distinction can be made between those views which were and are Jewish-Christian and those that lost their Jewish roots altogether? Can Christianity be properly understood without properly understanding its Jewish roots? How far can modern Christianity go from its roots before it becomes a different plant?

To be fair, IMO only Gnosticism completely lost its Jewish roots (most notably Marcionism, which explicitly rejected the OT); nearly all Christians today still have a high view of the Jewish scriptures, so there is at least some grounding remaining.

[Wildflower]

To be fair, IMO only Gnosticism completely lost its Jewish roots (most notably Marcionism, which explicitly rejected the OT); nearly all Christians today still have a high view of the Jewish scriptures, so there is at least some grounding remaining.

You are fortunate to see so many Christians with this understanding. But its not only a high view of Jewish scripture that is important, but a Jewish-Christian understanding of those scriptures. The experiential emphasis in so many modern Christians has, in my view, completely replaced a care for understanding the original. Why care about what the scriptures actually mean when you can apply your own understanding? When what "feels" right, when what helps you this moment takes priority over what actually is the right understanding exegetically.

I do appreciate the comments, I am trying to work this out. I just don't know where the line is. How far can we go from what the words originally meant and still be "Christian"? I must add, though, that I keep coming back to knowing that the Holy Spirit is still working to lead, guide, and give understanding to those who truly seek. But I see so much laziness, so much taking for granted, so much having Christianity as a "culture" rather than a desire to actually know God for God.

[One Bad Pig]

You are fortunate to see so many Christians with this understanding. But its not only a high view of Jewish scripture that is important, but a Jewish-Christian understanding of those scriptures. The experiential emphasis in so many modern Christians has, in my view, completely replaced a care for understanding the original. Why care about what the scriptures actually mean when you can apply your own understanding? When what "feels" right, when what helps you this moment takes priority over what actually is the right understanding exegetically.

When feeling trumps obedience, then IMO there are issues beyond having a Jewish-Christian understanding.

[Wildflower]

I am sad about it, like I'm watching my own family. I pray, and I'm seeking what I'm to do. For now I'm just trying to learn the original foundation and perhaps I will better see where the problems are and how to effectively pray and respond. Im thankful for the input as I am on this quest....