The Baldie Vs Mariology

[Christianbookworm]

Or have superpowers, which can't be possible. Don't think she'd have telepathy!

[foudroyant]

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ce%29%E2%80%8F
Part L #2

If some say that prophets were able to read the hearts of people (cf. 2 Kings 6:12; Acts 5:3-5) we must remember that although they had more insight than others they were never said to be able to know the totality of the hearts of all people. Only God has this knowledge (omniscience).

[Christianbookworm]

It would be silly to call it telepathy though... I think?

[foudroyant]

yeah you're right.
telepathy involves communicating between minds of people/persons it seems more in a willing manner.
Ananias did not want Peter to know what he (Ananias) was thinking - the same with the king of Syria and Elisha.

[Christianbookworm]

yeah you're right.
telepathy involves communicating between minds of people/persons it seems more in a willing manner.
Ananias did not want Peter to know what he (Ananias) was thinking - the same with the king of Syria and Elisha.

Watched too many superhero cartoons...

[Christianbookworm]

Any mention of telepathy just makes me think of the Martian Man-hunter.

[Spartacus]

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ce%29%E2%80%8F
Part L #2

If some say that prophets were able to read the hearts of people (cf. 2 Kings 6:12; Acts 5:3-5) we must remember that although they had more insight than others they were never said to be able to know the totality of the hearts of all people. Only God has this knowledge (omniscience).

This argument is as stupid now as it was the first time you trotted it out. The difference between knowing what 1 person is thinking and what 6 billion people are thinking is an incremental difference, not an infinite one.

[Paprika]

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. Without Augustine's formulation of Original Sin, there would be no dogma of the Immaculate Conception; it's what spurred its development in the first place.

I see. Agreed.

[foudroyant]

This argument is as stupid now as it was the first time you trotted it out. The difference between knowing what 1 person is thinking and what 6 billion people are thinking is an incremental difference, not an infinite one.

No one but God alone can fully know what even one person is thinking.


I would also add that since Roman Catholics pray to Mary but at the same time insist that she is not to be worshiped (latria) I wonder if they can point out anywhere in the Bible where prayer is occurring but it is not worship.
Let's see their example(s).

[One Bad Pig]

No one but God alone can fully know what even one person is thinking.

I dunno about that. I tend to only think of one thing at a time. Besides, how can someone know what another person is thinking without the operation of the Holy Spirit?

I would also add that since Roman Catholics pray to Mary but at the same time insist that she is not to be worshiped (latria) I wonder if they can point out anywhere in the Bible where prayer is occurring but it is not worship.
Let's see their example(s).

Source: Gen 12:13

Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Gen 13:8

And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Gen 16:2

And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

© Copyright Original Source

Is that sufficient?

[foudroyant]

A person may know what another person is thinking but they do not know the totality of their heart. That is the difference.

"Please say that you are my sister so that it may go well with me because of you, and that I may live on account of you." (Genesis 12:13, NASB).
That's not the same thing as the prayer I am referring to. Need I instead cite the Greek words along with their definitions?

[Pinoy]

Following tread maybe i can use it..

[One Bad Pig]

A person may know what another person is thinking but they do not know the totality of their heart. That is the difference.

I don't know anyone who claims that a saint must know the totality of their heart to hear their prayer.

"Please say that you are my sister so that it may go well with me because of you, and that I may live on account of you." (Genesis 12:13, NASB).
That's not the same thing as the prayer I am referring to. Need I instead cite the Greek words along with their definitions?

Thank you for spurring me to check. That brings up an important distinction - prayer in general does not connote worship; only prayer to God does. What you're trying to do is insinuate that, because prayer to God is latreia, prayer is thus always latreia. That is not legitimate.

Also, good to know you're not KJO.

[foudroyant]

To hear all prayers and the motivations of all the hearts behind these prayers requires omniscience.

There are several prayers in the Bible not rendered unto God and everyone of them was an act of worship. For example, in 1 Kings 18:26 the followers of Baal prayed " "O Baal, answer us." (NASB)

Praying to Baal is worshiping Baal.

[Leonhard]

Wait, if Mary had to be born without sin, in order to produce Christ without the stain of sin, wouldn't that process be needed since the time of Adam and Eve? I'm thinking that this view of Original Sin is flawed.

You're right - as Spartacus helpfully pointed out - that its not strictly necessary. I'm arguing from Original Sin being inherited actually being the case, that Adam collectively represented humanity, and in sinning by eating the fruit with, we're all collectively guilty of that.

I think I spoke a bit too quickly in that post, but if Christ had to be born to a sinful woman... then in some sense of the word he would have be saved from sin himself. Mary was saved from sin, she neither earned it or deserved it, this was a gift given to her. In some sense she was also saved by the works of her Son, because without Him, she would have fallen as well.