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Discernment and the Conscience

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  • Discernment and the Conscience

    The Bible is fairly straightforward regarding basic matters of morality but when it comes to the more murkier areas of life, that is largely where discernment comes in. But not all areas of morality are matters of absolute law, there is the morality of the conscience (1 Corinthians 8; Romans 14). And this latter morality seems to be subjective rather than objective:

    One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. (Romans 14:2).


    Clearly there is nothing objectively wrong with eating meat but what makes it wrong in this case seems to be the conscience.

    My question is--how do you practically determine, outside of the black and white areas, what's right and what's wrong? How does your own personal conscience factor into your decision making processes? I am specifically interested in your methodology--do you just go with a gut instinct, do you debate it in your head, do you discuss it with others, do you figure it out in a pros and cons chart, do you review what you know from the Bible and attempt to figure it out from there, etc. And if you feel comfortable talking about it, do you think you have a strong or a weak conscience?

    And to get the ball rolling, here's a concrete example (you might discuss your methodology in terms of how you would deal with this situation):

    You make minimum wage as a convenience store clerk. A man comes up to the counter with a dirty magazine. You are against it but you are unsure if it would be a violation if you process the transaction. How do you proceed? (This example could apply to a large number of service jobs where you aren't directly obtaining or promoting anything but are just one link in a large chain).
    Last edited by Paula; 01-21-2016, 09:42 PM.

  • #2
    An interesting question, and one with probably as many answers as there are believers.

    Your example is quite interesting to me as well. I worked for a time, many years ago, in a small toy store. There were ouija boards for sale, and I was not going to be able to sell those if I could help it. I never said anything to anyone, but I prayed that I would never be in that situation.

    Those boards sat in that store and gathered dust for as long as I worked there. Not one sold.

    I guess my approach is that when a situation comes up, I do look to scripture for guidance. If there is no definitive black or white on the issue, I will think about whether it is necessary for me to partake in, whether it might be a stumbling block to others, etc.

    I don't drink. Never have, never will. But I believe it is between anybody else and God whether that is ok for them, as long as they do not get drunk, as scripture admonishes against. Same with other issues.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Paula View Post
      My question is[—]how do you practically determine, outside of the black and white areas, what's right and what's wrong? How does your own personal conscience factor into your decision making processes? I am specifically interested in your methodology[.] [D]o you just go with a gut instinct, do you debate it in your head, do you discuss it with others, do you figure it out in a pros and cons chart, do you review what you know from the Bible and attempt to figure it out from there, etc. And if you feel comfortable talking about it, do you think you have a strong or a weak conscience?

      And to get the ball rolling, here's a concrete example (you might discuss your methodology in terms of how you would deal with this situation):

      You make minimum wage as a convenience store clerk. A man comes up to the counter with a dirty magazine. You are against it but you are unsure if it would be a violation if you process the transaction. How do you proceed? (This example could apply to a large number of service jobs where you aren't directly obtaining or promoting anything but are just one link in a large chain).
      If one is employed as a clerk at a store that sells pornographic materials or films one finds objectionable (whatever the rating), one may (a) go on treating all transactions alike or (b) find another vocation. The position of a shelf-stacker is does not differ in any large degree from a store clerk in such matters. If one stocks shelves for a wage refuses to fill the shelves with materials he/she finds objectionable, the occupation is not suitable for such an individual. One may attempt to reason with one’s employer that they should consider putting a stop to selling certain goods, but it is unlikely that the employee will prevail in most instances.

      This brings me to the larger issue of employment as a believer. I am certain that most would agree that Christians have no business (e.g.) starring in pornographic films or working at strip clubs. The implication is that certain lines of employment are incompatible for believers. Should a Christian seek employment as a bartender or consider acting a bouncer at a pub? I do not think so. One may argue that Christians should (or could) act as salt and light in such shady establishments, but I doubt it. If I were an unbeliever frequenting a pub, I can imagine being rather incredulous of the one peddling me booze from behind the counter that he or she is a ‘Christian’. (The same goes for the guy kicking me out of the pub for raucous behaviour!) My basic points are these: (a) working in certain establishments is unwise for followers of Christ; (b) the influence of believers can be dampened in certain environments or rendered wholly ineffective because they are some place they should not be.
      Last edited by The Remonstrant; 01-22-2016, 04:15 AM.
      For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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      • #4
        What would Jesus do in my situation?

        What might be pleasing to God?

        Often we are trying to decide how bad can I be, when what we should be looking for is "how good can I be right now".

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        • #5
          Except WWJD always makes me think of the miraculous stuff that Jesus can do which is not an option for us. Like if someone collapsed in front of Jesus with no heartbeat, Jesus vould just will that they be alive again. We would have to call 911 and use CPR that may not work.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Except WWJD always makes me think of the miraculous stuff that Jesus can do which is not an option for us. Like if someone collapsed in front of Jesus with no heartbeat, Jesus vould just will that they be alive again. We would have to call 911 and use CPR that may not work.
            Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
              Of course one would pray also ina addition to calling 911. It didn't need to be said.
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                An interesting question, and one with probably as many answers as there are believers.

                Your example is quite interesting to me as well. I worked for a time, many years ago, in a small toy store. There were ouija boards for sale, and I was not going to be able to sell those if I could help it. I never said anything to anyone, but I prayed that I would never be in that situation.

                Those boards sat in that store and gathered dust for as long as I worked there. Not one sold.

                I guess my approach is that when a situation comes up, I do look to scripture for guidance. If there is no definitive black or white on the issue, I will think about whether it is necessary for me to partake in, whether it might be a stumbling block to others, etc.

                I don't drink. Never have, never will. But I believe it is between anybody else and God whether that is ok for them, as long as they do not get drunk, as scripture admonishes against. Same with other issues.
                I never thought of that particular case happening, but it illustrates something that has occurred to me--questions may arise in many places of employment. Thank you for sharing your methodology for morally unclear areas, it seems pretty practical.

                Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                If one is employed as a clerk at a store that sells pornographic materials or films one finds objectionable (whatever the rating), one may (a) go on treating all transactions alike or (b) find another vocation. The position of a shelf-stacker is does not differ in any large degree from a store clerk in such matters. If one stocks shelves for a wage refuses to fill the shelves with materials he/she finds objectionable, the occupation is not suitable for such an individual. One may attempt to reason with one’s employer that they should consider putting a stop to selling certain goods, but it is unlikely that the employee will prevail in most instances.
                So you advocate, as an approach, neutrality or departing?

                Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                This brings me to the larger issue of employment as a believer. I am certain that most would agree that Christians have no business (e.g.) starring in pornographic films or working at strip clubs. The implication is that certain lines of employment are incompatible for believers. Should a Christian seek employment as a bartender or consider acting a bouncer at a pub? I do not think so. One may argue that Christians should (or could) act as salt and light in such shady establishments, but I doubt it. If I were an unbeliever frequenting a pub, I can imagine being rather incredulous of the one peddling me booze from behind the counter that he or she is a ‘Christian’. (The same goes for the guy kicking me out of the pub for raucous behaviour!) My basic points are these: (a) working in certain establishments is unwise for followers of Christ; (b) the influence of believers can be dampened in certain environments or rendered wholly ineffective because they are some place they should not be.
                I pretty much agree with you on places like that (i.e. strip clubs). Not so sure about bars though. Bars seem to range from places where people primarily go to get drunk to places to socialize to restaurants.
                Last edited by Paula; 01-25-2016, 09:11 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I go by my gut and the examples of my parents and grandparents and also apply the Golden Rule. I am a big believer in the Golden Rule and can usually figure out pretty easily how I would like to be treated in a situation. I have a bunch of rulers in my desk at work with the Golden Rule printed on them and like to give them out to colleagues on occasion. Gave one to an atheist friend/colleague of mine the other day. He was very touched. Turns out he has done a fair amount of research on it in the past. We ended up discussing both the universality and uniqueness of Jesus' teachings. The next morning when I came in to work, he was researching Leviticus 19,18.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Paula
                    I never thought of that particular case happening, but it illustrates something that has occurred to me--questions may arise in many places of employment. Thank you for sharing your methodology for morally unclear areas, it seems pretty practical.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well... my husband has to deliver ahem objectionable mail all the time, however in some rare cases he can report to the postmaster or the law if its a legal violation that he knows of. But some things (playboy, penthouse, guns delivered legally, etc) he has to just deliver them to the appropriate address. The main thing is realizing that he himself does not partake in someone else's sin and that what he is delivering (guns, controlled substances, chemicals) are delivered properly and to the correct address. I've also had a couple of situations at work where I would violate policy (CPR on a customer with a heart attack if the policy is do not touch) but if its a gray situation (Do I card just one person? or the whole group. I think best judgement and common sense are fine
                      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                        I go by my gut and the examples of my parents and grandparents and also apply the Golden Rule. I am a big believer in the Golden Rule and can usually figure out pretty easily how I would like to be treated in a situation.
                        Good point! A good deal of moral decision making can be collapsed down into the Golden Rule. I find the Golden Rule to be helpful as well, as it is an expression of the meta-moral of reciprocity. I think it also derives from the second part of the two greatest commandments:

                        37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40 NASB


                        Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                        Well... my husband has to deliver ahem objectionable mail all the time, however in some rare cases he can report to the postmaster or the law if its a legal violation that he knows of. But some things (playboy, penthouse, guns delivered legally, etc) he has to just deliver them to the appropriate address. The main thing is realizing that he himself does not partake in someone else's sin and that what he is delivering (guns, controlled substances, chemicals) are delivered properly and to the correct address.
                        Hmm, there is another one I hadn't considered-mail carriers. So I take it he focuses on professionalism and takes the perspective that people are responsible for their own sin whereas he is just providing an open ended service. A parallel would probably be an Internet service provider or a library. Thanks for sharing this story.

                        Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                        I've also had a couple of situations at work where I would violate policy (CPR on a customer with a heart attack if the policy is do not touch) but if its a gray situation (Do I card just one person? or the whole group. I think best judgement and common sense are fine
                        There are certainly times when I think the rules should be broken to serve a greater good. It can sometimes, though, be difficult to judge although matters of life and death take precedent over matters of company policy.
                        Last edited by Paula; 01-29-2016, 08:30 PM.

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