When do body and soul come together?

[Dr T]

Is this a meaningful question?

If so when do body and soul come together?

That's the question, can't say that I have any position on this.

Thank you in advance for any answers.

[Solly]

Today @ 11:50 AM post located here
Dr T:

Is this a meaningful question?

Probably, depending upon your position re this subject; it is certainly considered important in the abortion debate.

If so when do body and soul come together?

My position is they don't; we are a unity, everything is passed on as part of being human. And no, there isn't a gene for souls, because there is no separate soul. Source: John W Cooper, Body, Soul, and Life Everlasting. He posits "dualist Holism". We are a unity, there are no separate substances, which he sees as derived from platonism. Therefore Holistic. Dualist because God does take something at death, our personality - in whatever way that is construed and made up - for a temporary separation, until the resurrection.

[mickiel]

Today @ 11:50 AM post located here
Dr T:

Is this a meaningful question?

If so when do body and soul come together?

That's the question, can't say that I have any position on this.

Thank you in advance for any answers.

Some view them as the same thing, and the bible gives that impression in some areas, but not others. God blew life into man and he became a living soul, so this implies a soul can be dead. The soul that sins shall die, implys that the soul is physical, as is the body. But then the scriptures advises us to fear him who is able to kill body and soul, as if they are two different things. The soul that sins shall die seems more of a physical description to me. However Christ came to save our souls, does that mean preserve our bodys? I am unclear on this, but i think the soul is a combination of the spirit in man, with the mind AND body of the man, or at least something simular.

[Dr T]

Today @ 11:56 AM post located here
Solly:



Probably, depending upon your position re this subject; it is certainly considered important in the abortion debate.



My position is they don't; we are a unity, everything is passed on as part of being human. And no, there isn't a gene for souls, because there is no separate soul. Source: John W Cooper, Body, Soul, and Life Everlasting. He posits "dualist Holism". We are a unity, there are no separate substances, which he sees as derived from platonism. Therefore Holistic. Dualist because God does take something at death, our personality - in whatever way that is construed and made up - for a temporary separation, until the resurrection.

I understand the relevance to the abortion debate, but don't want to link this question to that debate.

The first question might have been better phrased as "Are the body and soul separate entities?". If not then the question is meaningless, which was why I was asking if this was a meaningless question, sorry for the confusion.

[Xmansmommy]

Great question Dr T. Not a topic that I've studied so it should be interesting to hear some of the responses.

[nomad]

there is probably a large body of work on this out there, most that i am not familiar with.

the most common view i am aware of is that there are three parts of a human, a physical body, a spirit, and a soul. the difference between soul and body is as mickiel said among other things; the usual text for the spirit being separate is heb 4:12

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

don't know much more than that. solly, i've never seen that view before actually, have to look into it.

my personal thoughts are pretty simple: the soul is the 'consciousness', the physical body is the 'form' in the physical world; the 'spirit' is a spiritual body that has the same effect, our 'form' in the spiritual world. paul once said 'we sit in heavenly places', present tense, and he was not dead yet; this is what made me think of it that way, because it seems like common sense, and fits with these statements. a physical body exists in a physical universe; a spirit also has to live somewhere, so it's already in heaven (something like eph 2:6). i believe this is part of the preterist thinking as well (though i am not preterist).

if this is true, a saved person consists of all three parts living; an unsaved person consists of two parts (body and soul) alive, the third part (spirit) dead, which must be revived. only those who have spirit can survive in the coming kingdom.

if the body and soul are separate, then it is a valid question.

i know of three theories offhand, iirc.

one is like 'puntuated creationism' or something, this says that at conception, God makes a soul to go with that body.

another view believes that God ceased creation on the seventh day, and therefore cannot still be creating, so all the souls were created before the seventh day. this group still believes though that a soul is joined to the body at conception.

a third view, traducianism, believes that the soul is produced the same way as the body, by a mingling of the two parents generating a third. it is not clear what the new soul is made 'out of', or the method by which the mingling is done (DNA/reproductive cell joining would be the physical way), but the end result is the same - the soul is a descendant of the two parents. this eliminates the creation problem, since God is not creating these souls, and also impacts original sin doctrines.

i am currently of the third view, but not because of its tertiary effects, it just seems sensible.

[spl_cadet]

We are ensouled at the moment of conception.

[johnnybanano]

09-05-2003 @ 04:29 PM post located here
spl_cadet:

We are ensouled at the moment of conception.

On what do you base this statement?

[BiggieT]

My basic view on this actually goes into my view of the Holy Trinity. Genesis says that God created us "in His image." To say that we were all made to look exactly like God is ludicris, since we all look different. However, I believe that God created "in His image" in the sense that we are made to be like Him, as a mammal's child has the same body structure as the parent, even thought they look nothing alike. So when God says that we are made in His image, we are made "structurally" like Him. God the Father is represented in our mind or soul; the consciousness. God the Son is represented by the physical; our body. God the Spirit represents our spirit. If this in any way sounds heretical, I apologize because I can think of no other way to put it. So in a way we were made to be triune like Our Father in Heaven. I believe we really just screwed or selves over in the physical through sin, which brought down the spiritual and mental, all three eventually dieing. Then God gave up His body, Jesus, so that that which orginally sinned in us could be resurrected, there by bringing all of us back into the fold of God. As for when body and soul are joined, this I cannot claim any wisdom on. It seems logical that since God had us planned out before Creation, we have been "living" since then, if only in the mind of God.

[TWells]

09-04-2003 @ 11:56 AM post located here
Solly:



Probably, depending upon your position re this subject; it is certainly considered important in the abortion debate.



My position is they don't; we are a unity, everything is passed on as part of being human. And no, there isn't a gene for souls, because there is no separate soul. Source: John W Cooper, Body, Soul, and Life Everlasting. He posits "dualist Holism". We are a unity, there are no separate substances, which he sees as derived from platonism. Therefore Holistic. Dualist because God does take something at death, our personality - in whatever way that is construed and made up - for a temporary separation, until the resurrection.

From what ive read isnt this called the "Semitic Totality Concept"? With the idea of seperation between body and soul a western concept that found its way into Christianity through Augustine?