Cruz Versus Sanders

[Yttrium]

Okay, JimL, I think I have a pretty good handle on your position now. I don't really feel like arguing over your points. I'll take them into consideration if the situation arises.

[JimL]

Do you believe that 1) controlling the cost of healthcare is essential for reform? 2) Do you believe that outrageous tort settlements add significant costs to the system?

Look up malpractice premiums for obstetricians in the Chicago area, e.g.

If it is malpractice, and people are injured as a result, then those people have every right to sue for damages. Do you disagree? I know of a case in my home town where the patient had to have his leg amputated, the surgery went fine, but the patient woke from the surgery only to find to his horror that the wrong leg had been amputated. These cases, whether they are legit or not are determined by the court. What kind of reform did you have in mind?

[klaus54]

If it is malpractice, and people are injured as a result, then those people have every right to sue for damages. Do you disagree? I know of a case in my home town where the patient had to have his leg amputated, the surgery went fine, but the patient woke from the surgery only to find to his horror that the wrong leg had been amputated. These cases, whether they are legit or not are determined by the court. What kind of reform did you have in mind?

There should be a cap on settlements, as well as stricter rules on tort liars (oops, lawyers) who suck money out of the system and get filthy rich. (*)

It's difficult to find an obstetrician in Cook County, Illinois. The average malpractice annual premium is $138,484.

Would you like the taxpayers to pick up that cost when single-payer becomes law?

You DO understand the role of cost control in health care reform, do you not?

http://www.cunninghamgroupins.com/hi...ates/illinois/

(*) And act all sanctimonious about it!

[JimL]

Well good thing it isn't any of that.

Well actually yes it is that, the insurance industry is supposed to be about insuring ones ability to recieve good health care, but in reality their main concern is profits. To that end they are corrupt in their practice.

It just doesn't mesh well with the left's desire for a single payer government run system. They have sufficiently screwed the VA system. What on God's green earth makes you think they would do better with everyone's healthcare?

Who has sufficiently screwed the V.A. system? Remember who is responsible for funding the V.A., and who sends our ill equiped military into unnecessary wars bringing so many wounded back home in need of so much care. The V.A. is a mess because it is overburdened and underfunded and the only reason that it is underfunded is because those in congress who are backed by the plutocrats don't want their backers tax dollars to have to pay for it. So, the government won't do any better with everyones health care so long as these schmucks are in left power.

But they lost homes, transportation, had to declare bankruptcy, and a host of other detrimental effects. You'd INTENTIONALLY create a million more of that?

Yeah, of course we lost a lot due to the unregulated and corrupt nature of Wall Street and our Congress. The Obama Administration tried to ameliorate that situation only to be stifled by the republicans in Congress. Now why in the world do you think that Congress, after seeing what an unregulated Wall Street was capable of doing to the world economy would want to allow that situation to continue? Could it be that Wall Street pulls their strings? Ya think!

[JimL]

There should be a cap on settlements, as well as stricter rules on tort liars (oops, lawyers) who suck money out of the system and get filthy rich. (*)

It's difficult to find an obstetrician in Cook County, Illinois. The average malpractice annual premium is $138,484.

Would you like the taxpayers to pick up that cost when single-payer becomes law?

You DO understand the role of cost control in health care reform, do you not?

http://www.cunninghamgroupins.com/hi...ates/illinois/

(*) And act all sanctimonious about it!

Torts are the result of negligence and if a doctor is so negligent that he can not afford the resulting cost of insurance, then he shouldn't be practicing medicine. They can't pass the cost of their negligence on to the public under a single payer system like they can under the present system.

[Bill the Cat]

Well actually yes it is that, the insurance industry is supposed to be about insuring ones ability to recieve good health care,

No it isn't. It's about insuring one's ability to pay for their doctor's visits. Insurance companies have very little todo with the overall quality of care being provided by doctors.

but in reality their main concern is profits.

As is EVERY private business.

To that end they are corrupt in their practice.

No they aren't.

Who has sufficiently screwed the V.A. system?

The Government. Processes are awful, care is substandard, and waiting times are unreasonable.

Remember who is responsible for funding the V.A.,

It isn't a funding issue per se. It's the fact that government paid doctors can't make a comparable amount as a private practice can.

and who sends our ill equiped military

Our military is by far the best equipped military in the world. No one else is even close.

into unnecessary wars bringing so many wounded back home in need of so much care.

And if they were capable of managing their way out of a paper bag, they'd be much better. But they are government employees with very little incentive to perform well and very little risk of losing their jobs.

The V.A. is a mess because it is overburdened and underfunded

That's only part of the problem. The VA is a mess because it is mismanaged.

and the only reason that it is underfunded is because those in congress who are backed by the plutocrats don't want their backers tax dollars to have to pay for it. So, the government won't do any better with everyones health care so long as these schmucks are in left power.

Riiight...

Yeah, of course we lost a lot due to the unregulated and corrupt nature of Wall Street and our Congress.

Thanks to Barney Frank and Bill Clinton

The Obama Administration tried to ameliorate that situation only to be stifled by the republicans in Congress.

Because Obama's ideas were stupid and short sighted.

Now why in the world do you think that Congress, after seeing what an unregulated Wall Street was capable of doing to the world economy would want to allow that situation to continue? Could it be that Wall Street pulls their strings? Ya think!

Your tinfoil hat is slipping...

[jordanriver]

eliminating the middleman, i.e the insurance industry,.

And put over a million people out of work...

what work?
Middlemen are nothing but a bunch of sponging pencil-pushing parasites who need to get their fat butts out from behind their desks in their air conditioned offices, and get out on the floor and help with the work.....i.e., to quote the notorious Cow Poke "Get a Job"
(somebody can show them the vending machine where they can enter their worker's code to get some work gloves)

[Bill the Cat]

what work?
Middlemen are nothing but a bunch of sponging pencil-pushing parasites who need to get their fat butts out from behind their desks in their air conditioned offices, and get out on the floor and help with the work.....i.e., to quote the notorious Cow Poke "Get a Job"
(somebody can show them the vending machine where they can enter their worker's code to get some work gloves)

My sister works for Anthem in one of those "parasite" positions. You obviously have no clue what they do or what value they offer to us. And since when does one need "work gloves" to be considered real workers? Boy, you get weirder and weirder...

[jordanriver]

My sister works for Anthem in one of those "parasite" positions. You obviously have no clue what they do or what value they offer to us. And since when does one need "work gloves" to be considered real workers? Boy, you get weirder and weirder...

yeah yeah
so what.
My mother and father worked for American National Insurance out of Galveston before we left Texas.
But my opinion stays.
This whole money system is flawed and evil.

*MONEY* is the root of evil.

[Cerebrum123]

yeah yeah
so what.
My mother and father worked for American National Insurance out of Galveston before we left Texas.
But my opinion stays.
This whole money system is flawed and evil.

*MONEY* is the root of evil.

1 Timothy 6:9-11New International Version (NIV)

9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

There is a difference between money, and a love of money.

[jordanriver]

1 Timothy 6:9-11New International Version (NIV)

9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

There is a difference between money, and a love of money.

money is the root of the love of money.

otherwise, if love of money came before money existed, Timothy would have said, "love of money is the root of all evil, ....votever dot mins"

[Cerebrum123]

money is the root of the love of money.

otherwise, if love of money came before money existed, Timothy would have said, "love of money is the root of all evil, ....votever dot mins"

Look, if "money" didn't exist you would have the same root cause, namely greed, behind all that evil. Money is just one of the more visible ways in which it is shown.

[jordanriver]

Look, if "money" didn't exist you would have the same root cause, namely greed, behind all that evil. Money is just one of the more visible ways in which it is shown.

I bet a half dozen guys couldn't carry off 106.5 200K houses in a few duffle bags as easily

[JimL]

No it isn't. It's about insuring one's ability to pay for their doctor's visits. Insurance companies have very little todo with the overall quality of care being provided by doctors.

No, its about insuring ones ability to pay at great profit to the Industry, and great profit is their main concern, which limits the buyers ability to actually be able to pay.

As is EVERY private business.

If the Insurance industries main purpose is how much profit they can make, then we really don't need them do we. Government can do the same job, at less cost, being that peoples actual health is the point, not profits.

No they aren't.

Yes they are corrupt, you just haven't been paying attention. They are not actually interested in the health care that people receive and they use every trick in the book and loophole in the law to get around covering people in their time of need.

The Government. Processes are awful, care is substandard, and waiting times are unreasonable.

You don't know what you are talking about. The actual care at the V.A. for instance is excellent and if not for the funding problem, thank you Congress, so to would be the whole system be.

It isn't a funding issue per se. It's the fact that government paid doctors can't make a comparable amount as a private practice can.

I'll take your word on that for now, but it has nothing to do with it. If the middle man and their profit gouging is eliminated, then government paid doctors can be payed comparably and health care would still cost less. Its really just common sense, cut out the enormous profits and there is less costs and better healthcare for all.

Our military is by far the best equipped military in the world. No one else is even close.

Didn't say it wasn't the best, but they were sent into Iraq with shoddy equipment resulting in enormous unnecesary casualties. But even still, whether you disagree with that or not, the war itself was unnecessary and caused an enormous amount of casualties. If the government is going to send them into war, then the government is responsible for properly funding The V.A. to accomodate them when they come home wounded, they don't.

And if they were capable of managing their way out of a paper bag, they'd be much better. But they are government employees with very little incentive to perform well and very little risk of losing their jobs.

Excellent actual care, less funding.

That's only part of the problem. The VA is a mess because it is mismanaged.

If a system is overburdened and underfunded then that is going to have a big effect on managment. Try putting two and two together Bill.

Riiight...

Good, glad you agree. So throw the bums out, get rid of the profiteers that back them, and properly fund the system.

Thanks to Barney Frank and Bill Clinton

Thanks to anyone who supported deregulation of the banks. Don't be such a partison, republicans are still in favor of deregulation of the banks. Hmmm, wonder why that could be?

Because Obama's ideas were stupid and short sighted.

Seems all you have is talking points Bill. For one thing, they are not Obama's ideas, they are the result of the coalition put together by Obama to look into the matter and to insure that the Country isn't put into that situation again. Of course Wall street and their lobbyists got to Congress again in order that they block the legislation as much as possible.

Your tinfoil hat is slipping...

The fact that you didn't answer the question is telling.

[Bill the Cat]

yeah yeah
so what.
My mother and father worked for American National Insurance out of Galveston before we left Texas.
But my opinion stays.
This whole money system is flawed and evil.

*MONEY* is the root of evil.

Money is a thing. In and of itself, it can do nothing. Greed is the root of evil, and that is expressed as the love of money. Before currency existed, the accumulation of goods existed.