Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Cruz Versus Sanders

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
    look Yttrium, you point was that Communism does not work, and you only cited the failed example, USSR.

    And nobody ever got that chance to see if that would work, according to the some of the West's most ardent Capitalists, America caused Soviet downfall, voices like Colin Powell, Alexander Haig, Margaret Thatcher, Conservative think-tank Heritage.org and other popular best selling Conservative Authors..(its disingenuous of the West to tell Soviets "your system will never work", then knock down their system and say, "see, we told you your system would never work"

    not to mention the fact they never recovered from loss of 20 to 40 million lives during Patriotic War against Germany
    So is Red China an ideal Commie Uptopia?

    How about North Korea?

    Ever thought about leaving the oppressive Kapitalist regime that is the U.S. and move to a fair and compassionate Commie Work3rs Paradise?

    Comment


    • #77
      JordanRiver,

      Here's your new avatar:

      Daffy_Screwball.gif

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
        Most of the time, yes. But I taught mostly college juniors. But your answer appears to support MY point about lack of opportunities to change career paths for a 30 year-old in Commie-Land?

        ]


        did you not read the part that said "And if a student disagrees with their group of teachers' final evaluation and job assignment, they can appeal, try something else,"
        there does not seem to be a statute of limitations on that.

        question: Why did you wish to change careers at 30. What was wrong with the career you had.



        [COLOR=#ff0000][B]What if someone chooses not to work?
        we're still Americans.
        We still have that American tradition



        Source: Captain John Smith by Dennis Montgomery History.org



        Countrymen, the long experience of our late miseries, I hope is sufficient to persuade every one to a present correction of himself, and think not that either my pains, nor the [investors'] purses, will ever maintain you in idleness and sloth. I speak not this to you all, for diverse of you I know deserve both honor and reward, better than is yet here to be had: but the greater part must be more industrious, or starve, how ever you have been heretofore tolerated by the authorities of the Council, from that I have often commanded you. You see now that power rests wholly in myself: you must obey this now for a Law, that he that will not work shall not eat (except by sickness he be disabled) for the labors of thirty or forty honest and industrious men shall not be consumed to maintain an hundred and fifty idle loiterers. And though you presume the authority here is but a shadow, and that I dare not touch the lives of any but my own must answer it: the Letters patents shall each week be read to you, whose Contents will tell you the contrary. I would wish you therefore without contempt seek to observe these orders set down, for there are now no more Councilors to protect you, nor curb my endeavors. Therefore he that offends, let him assuredly expect his due punishment.
        source

        © Copyright Original Source



        its Commie also


        Source: 1936 CONSTITUTION OF THE USSR



        ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
        The principle applied in the U.S.S.R. is that of socialism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."
        source

        © Copyright Original Source



        its Christian too (Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians)
        To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
          So is Red China an ideal Commie Uptopia?

          How about North Korea?

          Ever thought about leaving the oppressive Kapitalist regime that is the U.S. and move to a fair and compassionate Commie Work3rs Paradise?
          you must think little of your fellow Americans.

          You seem to think if America became egalitarian, one day they're all going to rise up and announce, "now that we all have equal housing and equal access to the resources of the land, lets start killing each other and find a despot to be "more equal than the rest of us" ...like a plutocrat"



          But here you are, citing a 70 year old economy and a 66 year old economy. USSR lasted 69 years.

          What was USA in its first 60 - 70 years?

          What idealistic Capitalist Freedom did we have during first 66-70 years of USA history.

          Lets see, there was Indian Removal Act, there was Trail of Tears,

          There was enslavement of Africans that made America Great, foundation of American Capitalism was slavery, Lehman Brothers, CITIBANK, Aetna and Wachovia and JP Morgan Chase, Baring Brothers, Barings Bank/Baring Brothers & Co, (a British Bank, but they financed The Louisiana Purchase--the largest land purchase in history), BROWN BROTHERS, now the Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. (BBH) is the oldest and largest private bank in the United States,
          ...and my goodness, even The Brooks Brothers (they've outfitted 39 of the 44 American Presidents)


          Yup, its easy to compare modern USA with USSR and Red China, now that the American Sausage is already the finished product, packaged in its shiny plastic packaging and appetizing links an a platter or grilled breakfast patties on a clean breakfast buffet ,

          but when showing how sausage is made, slaughtering the pig, saving the snout and ears and eyeballs and gonads for the ingredients wrapped in intestines ...blood and guts and guts and blood, use that part to describe the Communist attempts.
          To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by klaus54 View Post
            Big Tort Law as well.

            If see yet another law firm put out a mesotheloma ad, I gonna shoot the TV. (Jordan doesn't have to worry about TV's -- they're permanently installed in the walls of every room of his flat.)
            ah , you like Capitalism, but you don't like Ambulance chasers.


            Ambulance Chasers

            but if you want to get rid of Ambulance Chasers , then do you think American workers are better off with that other product of money-Capitalism:
            The Company Doctor


            Money-Capitalism makes it easier to:

            Emergency Room Price Gouging ($9,000 to put a bandaide on a finger)

            Planned Obsolescence

            Luddites fearing for their families and jobs, another product of money capitalism privately owned profit motivated business


            Outsourcing Traitors


            Food Destruction and Milk Dumping

            Record harvest plenty of food for everybody?
            ...NO...
            Record Harvest = Low Market Prices Agri business layoffs


            Peter Principle
            (country managed by unqualified persons who were promoted because they were good at previous job but it paid less)

            $9,609 Allen wrench


            $436 for a $7 hammer and $1,118 for a 26-cent plastic stool cap

            Rise of Organized Crime during prohibition , money can buy power

            at least 80,000 people were killed due to in organized crime related incidents since 2006


            FLINT Michigan "The cash-strapped city switched from Detroit's municipal water system and began drawing from the Flint River in 2014 to save money."

            (Money winners and losers, the penalty for being a loser in USA is death) Americans cannot pay for their prescriptions


            and CORRUPTION, not just Republicans who we know bail out 'the haves' because they are too big to be allowed to fail

            but even the so called 'representatives of the little people' Hillary and Barrack represent the plutocrats, not me. "Drug companies won more protections for brand-name drugs against cheaper drugs in Obama's health care reform law."
            Last edited by jordanriver; 02-12-2016, 11:25 PM.
            To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              Do you understand how investing works? Would you invest your money in a company that only pays you $5 for every $100 you invest or would you rather invest in a company that returns more? And if your company can't compete with other companies and their rate of return, you will get no investors, and thus no growth. And ironically, the insurance companies didn't start making any decent profits until Obamacare became mandatory.

              Having insurance lowers financial barriers to quality care. It also increases perceived quality of care. That's indisputable.
              Cutting out the profits of the middle man lowers financial barriers and has no affect on quality of care. Thats indisputable.




              No. That's why health insurance should return to an optional purchase.
              Health care is not an option,its a necessity.


              No they can't. Basic microeconomics shows that when the government gets involved in price control, supply drops. There will also be a shortage, demand will exceed supply; this leads to waiting lists and the emergence of black markets as people try to overcome the shortage of the good and pay well above market price.
              http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/62...disadvantages/
              Thats just dumb. Tell that to every country that has universal health coverage. The demand is what it is whether government is involved or not.



              No they don't.

              The National Committee for Quality Assurance is an independent, nonprofit group. Their goal is to improve health care quality. They created a set of measures called the Healthcare Effectiveness Data and Information Set (HEDIS®).1 These measures are used to rate health plans. They rate quality of care, access to care and member satisfaction. More than 90% of America’s health plans use these measures.
              Ah, yes they do, and that is a fact. Having an independent rating system and actually complying with it are two different things.




              I'm a veteran, dumbass. I've used the VA. My daughter interns with the biologists at our VA hospital. My sister was a nurse there for a few years. My uncle used the VA hospital in North Carolina for 35 years. My cube mate worked there for 3 years in IT. I know exactly what I am talking about.
              No you don't.


              It has greatly improved thanks to some outsourcing and converting from government employees to contractors, implementing some necessary IT measures, and allowing vets to go to private doctors for routine visits. But the facts remain. The VA Office of Inspector General released separate reports on clinics in Alaska, Illinois, and California showing extended delays for care and general mismanagement.
              Besides the point! We were specifically talking of the actual care itself, not waiting times.


              Money doesn't come from a magic hat. That's the problem with the current administration. They think that money will just magically appear to pay for everything.
              No, money doesn't come from a magic hat, it comes from us. Apparently you believe the returning wounded should be responsible for their own health care.



              That's a pipe dream. Eliminating millions of private sector jobs, relying on the government to build hospitals and set medical prices, and the necessary increase in government employees (replete with benefits and retirement costs) will necessitate taxes going through the roof. It's not common sense to continue to bloat the government retirement system, among other numerous considerations.
              Universal health care insurance has to do with insuring the peoples ability to access quality health care, period. That means cutting out the middle man, the insurance industry, whose main purpose is profit. Common sense, less profiteering, more access.



              The equipment wasn't shoddy. It was just not designed to perfectly address the improvised tactics the enemy was using.
              Semantics. Okay, the equiptment was "inadequate." Feel better now?


              I don't think it was unnecessary. Sadaam was a threat. Any suggestion to the contrary is historical revisionism.
              Talk about denialism! The middle east is a greater threat now due to that stupid war, and the reasons given for it have been totally debunked.


              They fund the VA the best they can. The problem comes in when the VA executives are wasting at ridiculous levels. Hundreds of millions wasted on aesthetics on this one project alone, instead of on patient care. Almost a million dollars wasted on executive conferences at resorts. Billions wasted on project delays and legal expenses. The funding is there, but it is being wasted.
              If there is mismanagement and an organization, whether private or public, is being mismanaged, then you address those problems. You can cherry pick the same problems within the insurance industry, i.e. mismanagement and profiteering.




              Unreasonable wait times, wasteful and downright fraudulent spending, and general mismanagement.
              Uninsured, underinsured, profiterring. You will always find problems whether private or government run, the difference being is that the goals are different. The only goal of the insurance industry is profit.




              Oh, I have. And I provided evidence that proves my claim that the VA is poorly managed and wasteful with their funding. Yes, it is overburdened, but underfunded? The facts say no. The funding is mismanaged.
              No, you've proved nothing. If the system is overburdened, then obviously it is also underfunded. Profiteering and fraud on the part of the insurance industry is a much greater cost to quality of our health care than is the management problems within the V.A.




              From where? Where is the trillions of dollars to manage the entire US Healthcare industry going to come from?
              The money comes from the same place whether private or government run, but it will cost less once we rid ourselves of the middle man and the profiteering. Common sense.




              No they aren't. Not like Frank and Clinton were.
              Really? Have you heard of the Dodd/Frank legislation. Listen, we all know that the problems are complex and that there is corruption on both sides of the isle. The system is corrupt. Sanders is trying to wake you up to that fact so that we can do something about it.




              So, if it is a Democrat's plan, it's a "coalition", but if it is a Republican's, it's all theirs.
              That doesn't even make sense.
              The ball rests in Obama's hands, regardless of who passed it to him.
              Thats true. The credit goes to Obama.


              And the left and their lobbyists do the same.
              Yeah, there is corruption on both sides, corrupted by big money. You want to end the corruption, then support people like B. Sanders and E. Warren who are trying to wake people up to that fact.


              It was a conspiracy theory level accusation. Why dignify that with a response?
              What do you mean. You don't think that Wall street has a corrupting influence on Congress?
              Last edited by JimL; 02-13-2016, 03:22 AM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by jordanriver View Post
                ah , you like Capitalism, but you don't like Ambulance chasers.


                Ambulance Chasers

                but if you want to get rid of Ambulance Chasers , then do you think American workers are better off with that other product of money-Capitalism:
                The Company Doctor


                Money-Capitalism makes it easier to:

                Emergency Room Price Gouging ($9,000 to put a bandaide on a finger)

                Planned Obsolescence

                Luddites fearing for their families and jobs, another product of money capitalism privately owned profit motivated business


                Outsourcing Traitors


                Food Destruction and Milk Dumping

                Record harvest plenty of food for everybody?
                ...NO...
                Record Harvest = Low Market Prices Agri business layoffs


                Peter Principle
                (country managed by unqualified persons who were promoted because they were good at previous job but it paid less)

                $9,609 Allen wrench


                $436 for a $7 hammer and $1,118 for a 26-cent plastic stool cap

                Rise of Organized Crime during prohibition , money can buy power

                at least 80,000 people were killed due to in organized crime related incidents since 2006


                FLINT Michigan "The cash-strapped city switched from Detroit's municipal water system and began drawing from the Flint River in 2014 to save money."

                (Money winners and losers, the penalty for being a loser in USA is death) Americans cannot pay for their prescriptions


                and CORRUPTION, not just Republicans who we know bail out 'the haves' because they are too big to be allowed to fail

                but even the so called 'representatives of the little people' Hillary and Barrack represent the plutocrats, not me. "Drug companies won more protections for brand-name drugs against cheaper drugs in Obama's health care reform law."
                Reformed Kapitalism != Commie Libtard-ism

                Have you turned in your shoes for Industry?

                MORE SUGAR!!!

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  My sister works for Anthem in one of those "parasite" positions. You obviously have no clue what they do or what value they offer to us. And since when does one need "work gloves" to be considered real workers? Boy, you get weirder and weirder...
                  I'm beginning to think he's a Poe. no one can be that stupidly weird.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    With most US presidential race matchups, I can figure out pretty easily who I'd vote for. However, Cruz and Sanders are two people I'd normally never vote for, so pitting them against each other would be a very tough pick for me. In fact, I might not even vote if that becomes my choice. Sanders, the socialist, is too liberal for me. Cruz, the obstructionist, is too conservative and unwilling to negotiate.



                    Could I be swayed to pick one over the other? Can anyone give me some compelling arguments? Or should I consider a particular third party candidate in this situation?
                    If I was a voting man under some delusion that the POTUS actually mattered, which I'm not, I'd go with Bernie. First of all, the idea that our country is not a socialist system is laughable. In fact, the layers of socialism America is immersed in are so thick and obvious, both to the poor classes up to the wealthy classes (ESPECIALLY the wealthy), that it astounds me people are actually under the sheer delusion that we're still somehow a free market capitalist system (assuming we ever were, which is another subject in and of itself).

                    But assuming we are not a socialist system (lol), it's not like Bernie can implement socialist policy so drastically against the wishes of Congress that it would make that much of a difference, so the hysterical fear against the idea is silly and utterly moot.

                    With that said, I'd vote for Sanders for one thing and that alone... his stance on the banking and monetary system and the financial system in general. He's the only one that acknowledges the sheer corruption between the banks and our central bank, which tells me he not only understands how that system functions but expresses it with a passion that he at least wants to try and correct the problem (though he could be faking for political points, the fact the masses have no clue of the complexity of the problem, which makes it unnecessary for him to fake it, and that no other candidate even addresses the problem adds further credibility to his sincerity in my view). I won't get into it in detail here, but the corruption that resides with our central monetary policy and the banking system is so monumental when it comes to our economy that it still leaves me absolutely stunned why it's a subject very few people are privy to. It's the sheer elephant in the room when it comes to western economics and the well being of our entire western culture. In fact, I will be floored if Bernie is actually nominated based on this reason alone.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I'm definitely leaning towards Sanders over Cruz now. I get the feeling Cruz would threaten to veto everything congress passes until he gets exactly what he wants. He's been doing that kind of thing with filibusters for years in congress. That's just on top of all of his policies that I don't like.

                      Barring an open Republican convention plus a miracle, the Republican party has failed even my lowest expectations. I expect to vote for Clinton for president.
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        I'm definitely leaning towards Sanders over Cruz now. I get the feeling Cruz would threaten to veto everything congress passes until he gets exactly what he wants.
                        Just like our current president?
                        He's been doing that kind of thing with filibusters for years in congress.
                        Both parties have been doing that with filibusters for years.
                        That's just on top of all of his policies that I don't like.
                        Fair enough.
                        Barring an open Republican convention plus a miracle, the Republican party has failed even my lowest expectations. I expect to vote for Clinton for president.
                        I would vote for either Sanders or Cruz over the current front runners; at least they're running on their convictions.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          Just like our current president?
                          ... No.

                          Both parties have been doing that with filibusters for years.
                          Not like Cruz has. He's alienated many members of his own party with his obstructionist ways. That's why this is a nightmare scenario for the Republican establishment. Out of all the candidates for the Republican nominee, they've ended up with Trump and Cruz at the end, the two they wanted the least. They're forced to back Cruz just because Trump is even worse.

                          I would vote for either Sanders or Cruz over the current front runners; at least they're running on their convictions.
                          I'm not big on convictions. I tend to prefer wishy-washy moderates who are willing to negotiate. Trump is easily the most wishy-washy of the current crop of candidates on most issues, but he's a deranged kind of wishy-washy.
                          Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            The Republican establishment has made its own bed, afaics.

                            I am increasingly cynical that there is any good form of government. I just want it to leave me alone as much as possible.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment

                            Related Threads

                            Collapse

                            Topics Statistics Last Post
                            Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                            16 responses
                            165 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post One Bad Pig  
                            Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                            53 responses
                            400 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Mountain Man  
                            Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                            25 responses
                            114 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post rogue06
                            by rogue06
                             
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                            33 responses
                            198 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Roy
                            by Roy
                             
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                            84 responses
                            383 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post JimL
                            by JimL
                             
                            Working...
                            X