Death after Life

[The Silent Q]

A couple people close to me have passed away recently and this question has been on my mind for some time. One of my professors at Azusa Pacific liked to talk about the Pauline theology of death where Christians who have passed away don't go to Heaven immediately but rather go into something like a deep sleep until the resurrection in the future. I can't remember off the top of my head where the texts were that support that view, but I'm curious about what people think of that view and what other's views are. As of right now I'm only aware of three: the common view (at least I think it's the common view) that you immediately go to Heaven when you die, the view that the deceased "sleep" without any type of consciousness and "wake up" at the resurrection, and that the deceased sleep and are in a dream-like state where they commune with God and other faithful who have also died until the resurrection.

[Kelp]

The idea is basically called "soul sleep". I don't much about it. But, mind if I ask what differance it would make to you if it was true? No disrespect intednded, but you'll see your loved ones in enternity after the Resurrection in any case.

[The Silent Q]

I forgot to put this in my original post, hopefully this will clarify. I had heard somewhere that the idea of soul sleep was considered heresy. I never remember studying it, so I'm not sure where that would have developed. Other than that, it doesn't really matter much I suppose. There is part of me that I think perhaps would provide comfort in knowing that they are either they are with God or though sleeping are in some way communing with him. It's a bit selfish, and even then, knowing they're in soul sleep waiting for the resurrection isn't necessarily that bad either. But it's mostly the heresy issue. And I'm just interested in other's thoughts.

[Kelp]

I see. Well, I don't seehow it could be heresy. It doesn't deny any of the central creeds.

[mossrose]

Paul taught soul sleep?



Then why would he say

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

2 Cor. 5:8

And if Paul did advocate soul sleep anywhere, he would be going against Jesus, who said to the thief on the cross,

And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43

Soul sleep is not a doctrine taught in Scripture.

[Teallaura]

It's at worst heterodox - it's not a true heresy. I think it's erroneous but it doesn't have any salvic implications so I don't see it as particularly important either.

[Zguy28]

Paul taught soul sleep?



Then why would he say

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I agree. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

And if Paul did advocate soul sleep anywhere, he would be going against Jesus, who said to the thief on the cross,

And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Luke 23:43

Soul sleep is not a doctrine taught in Scripture.

The problem with that one, even though I agree with you BTW, is that some translate it with the comma after the word today.

[Gideon Brown]

the view that the deceased "sleep" without any type of consciousness and "wake up" at the resurrection

I don't really understand how anyone can think this isn't what happens... I've never really understood people who think you go to heaven as soon as you die! I mean, how would that work? You go to heaven... then we have the great Judgment in Revelation? You're hanging out in heaven for a while... it's totally awesome... the greatest place in existence... and then you get yanked away from it to go get judged - the very worst event to ever happen to you? I don't get it.

[Zguy28]

It's at worst heterodox - it's not a true heresy. I think it's erroneous but it doesn't have any salvic implications so I don't see it as particularly important either.

It is a view common among Seventh-Day Adventists.

[mossrose]

I agree. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

The problem with that one, even though I agree with you BTW, is that some translate it with the comma after the word today.

Yes, JW's, for instance, who place the comma for THEIR convenience.

[Teallaura]

It is a view common among Seventh-Day Adventists.

Granted but it's still heterodox and not heretical although I'm aware that there are heresies present in one branch of that denomination - this just isn't one.

[Teallaura]

I don't really understand how anyone can think this isn't what happens... I've never really understood people who think you go to heaven as soon as you die! I mean, how would that work? You go to heaven... then we have the great Judgment in Revelation? You're hanging out in heaven for a while... it's totally awesome... the greatest place in existence... and then you get yanked away from it to go get judged - the very worst event to ever happen to you? I don't get it.

Judgment for the Christian is a different animal than judgment for the non-believer. For us it's more like getting the results of your finals - can be extremely disappointing (I fully expect to have flunked ) but it doesn't endanger your salvation.
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[mossrose]

:yeah:

We only await our new bodies.

[The Silent Q]

Paul talks about death as sleep in the following verses:

1 Cor 15:5, 18, 20, 51
Eph 5:14
1 Thess 4:13-15

It's also mentioned in 2 Pet 3:4.

More dynamic translations will probably use the word dead, but the Greek word being used their is the word for sleep. As far as I know, this theology isn't spelled out clearly in any text. I.e. nowhere does Paul or Peter or Jesus explicitly say, those who dead go into soul sleep. Then again, it's pretty rare to find doctrine spelled out clearly in any biblical text, but that's a topic for another thread. Scholars argue that because Paul talks about them being asleep rather than being in Paradise or Heaven that Paul meant soul sleep.

As far as the verse from Luke is concerned, two quick things:
1. My Pauline professors always told me to remember the following: Paul is primarily a pastor, and one of a pastor's main functions is to help their congregations understand the more difficult or obscure parts of scripture. Jesus, in general, is hard to pin down and understand. Reading through the gospels in a daunting task. Aside from that verse, I'm not sure Jesus really talks about death a whole lot except for his own. So it could be Paul is trying to make sense of what Jesus addresses.

2. This could possibly be an exception. Those who are in favor of soul sleep theology also argue that soul sleep would be much like going under, where the time between dying and waking up again would be instantaneous to one who is sleeping. It's a possible interpretation, though one that I'm not sure I'm completely sold on.

And finally, the 2 Cor verse. I'm wondering if Paul is actually talking about death here. It's sometimes hard to tell, because Paul was convinced that Jesus was coming back in the next five minutes and it permeates all of his writing. Being absent from the body, though, doesn't necessarily sound Pauline. I'm not sure where 2 Cor stands in terms of whether it's agreed to be written by Paul or not. Not that that negates it's meaning, only that I wouldn't categorize it as part of Pauline theology. Anyway, I want to look into that verse more, because just briefly looking at the context I'm having difficulty figuring out what's actually being talked about.

[Zguy28]

I don't really understand how anyone can think this isn't what happens... I've never really understood people who think you go to heaven as soon as you die! I mean, how would that work? You go to heaven... then we have the great Judgment in Revelation? You're hanging out in heaven for a while... it's totally awesome... the greatest place in existence... and then you get yanked away from it to go get judged - the very worst event to ever happen to you? I don't get it.

Its the whole "existence outside of linear time" thingee.

You know. If I were to die now, I would be at the Great White Throne of the I AM with Paul, Justin Martyr, John Wycliffe etc. No waiting for anybody. The reality of space without linear time is almost incomprehensible to my feeble human brain. But alas I try...