What is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Exactly?

[Sakarja]

Hi Charles!

Ac.1:8 is a prophecy of Jesus in regards to what would happen after they were baptized. For we read Ac.1:5 you shall be baptized with the H.S.not many days hence. It would only be after they were baptized that thy would receive power of the Holy Spirit. Prior to baptism they were used involuntarily by the Father to manifest a miracle by speaking in a known language.

No I think its a sign.
"Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."

What is this but the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The power and the change in their lives was a consequence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Also notice the words "upon you" and "power" which are the same as in acts 1:8. Power, I think, is the main purpose that Jesus gives here for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

(also I don't think that speaking in tongues is involuntary, after all it says they spoke, not that the Holy Spirit spoke through them, although God did give the words, but thats another story :p)

I believe you are confusing the gift (dorea gift of the Father) the Holy Spirit with the gift (charisma gift) of the Holy Spirit.

Hmm I don't really see this yet can you elaborate further?
I believe that we do receive the Holy Spirit when we are born again but then there's also the part of infilling and saturation of the Holy spirit, and "being clothed with his power". But there are so many people living lives without that much power, joy, or love, even though they are christians or even speak in tongues. And also there have been and are many christians who don't speak in tongues but yet have power and the fruit of the Spirit. Experience and scripture leads me to believe that the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit is something different. I think that equating baptism with infilling is a pretty good way of understanding this.

We just need to live out what Christ has done on the Cross more and live in that relationship with him, being filled &letting our souls be saturated with his truth, power and love in the spirit.

[HisNibbs]

Sakarja - so when were the disciples born of the Spirit ?

And when was anyone "born of the Spirit" before being baptised in the Spirit in the NT ?

And, if you are born of the Spirit who is a Spirit of power (2 Tim. 1v7) how can you still need to receive the power ?... like how can you receive a person but not their authority ?

[elderbanks]

As always it is good to experience it for your self. as Chariles would speak he is like others that are not understnading the trinity. When Jesus left he said the helper would come not while he was here. So as otheres would label it , the bible says after he asendent to heaven would he then send the comforter. It is self understanding only after Jesus left would people experience the Holy Spirit. There are people that call it a transce because what theye do not believe. No matter what a person writes they must expericence the change in their heart.

[Sakarja]

Sakarja - so when were the disciples born of the Spirit ?

Hey there. I think its probably after the resurrection when Jesus breathed on them . See the end of John's gospel.

And when was anyone "born of the Spirit" before being baptised in the Spirit in the NT ?

Let's look at Acts 8:

8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

I think its clear that they were born again but they still needed another experience, the Holy Spirit coming "upon them". And this had consequences that could be seen because Simon was so impressed that he wanted to buy the power. Now, how often do people come up to us and offer to buy the power we have? Wow. The power must have had very visible consequences. Yet we have the same promise of power as they did.

And, if you are born of the Spirit who is a Spirit of power (2 Tim. 1v7) how can you still need to receive the power ?... like how can you receive a person but not their authority ?

Very good question! I think its more about walking in what we have received, and also giving room to God in our souls, and allowing him to fill us. We might be filled with a lot of other things also like pride, lies, bitterness etc. When we are filled with bitterness for example we are obviously not filled/ saturated by the Holy Spirit there. I don't understand it fully either, but I think its clear from scripture.

For example in Ephesians we see Paul declaring that the believers were already "blessed with all heavenly blessing in Christ Jesus" and "sealed with the Holy Spirit" yet just moments later we see him praying for God to "give us the spirit of wisdom and revelation" and "for God to strenghten our hearts by his spirit", "for us to be rooted and grounded in God's love" for us to be "filled with all the fullness of God" and so on. Also he exhorts us to be "filled [continually] with the Spirit" and to "put on the whole armor of God". (quotations are from memory here).
To me these things are all connected.

[charles]

Posted by Sakarja on 01-06-2004 04:09 PM:

Hi Charles!

“ Ac.1:8 is a prophecy of Jesus in regards to what would happen after they were baptized. For we read Ac.1:5 you shall be baptized with the H.S.not many days hence. It would only be after they were baptized that thy would receive power of the Holy Spirit. Prior to baptism they were used involuntarily by the Father to manifest a miracle by speaking in a known language. ”



No I think its a sign.
"Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."


C.
Yes it was a sign. The prophecy of Ac.1:8 is they would be endued with POWER. It does not say they would receive the Holy Spirit. Lk.24 does not teach how a person receives the gift of the Holy Spirit.

S.
What is this but the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The power and the change in their lives was a consequence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Also notice the words "upon you" and "power" which are the same as in acts 1:8. Power, I think, is the main purpose that Jesus gives here for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

C.
ACts 1:8 is a prophecy which was realized in Ac.2:38
Upon you and power are not recieving the indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit. The first time you find the word receive is Acts 2:38.

S
(also I don't think that speaking in tongues is involuntary, after all it says they spoke, not that the Holy Spirit spoke through
them, although God did give the words, but thats another story :p)

C.
Ac.2:4 says they were filled with the H.S. it does not say they received the H.S. It also says the H.S. gave them utterance. They did not have a choice they were used by God to do a miracle.

C.
“ I believe you are confusing the gift (dorea gift of the Father) the Holy Spirit with the gift (charisma gift) of the Holy Spirit. ”

S.
Hmm I don't really see this yet can you elaborate further?
I believe that we do receive the Holy Spirit when we are born again but then there's also the part of infilling and saturation of the Holy spirit, and "being clothed with his power". But there are so many people living lives without that much power, joy, or love, even though they are christians or even speak in tongues. And also there have been and are many christians who don't speak in tongues but yet have power and the fruit of the Spirit. Experience and scripture leads me to believe that the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit is something different. I think that equating baptism with infilling is a pretty good way of understanding this.

C.
When a person is baptized they are promised the gift of the Father the H.S. as revealed in scriputure by Peter in Acts 2:38. A person is not promised the gifts (charisma gifts) of the H.S. they are only promised the dorea (gift) which is revealed to us as the Holy Spirit. Who is Jesus Christ is Spirit. The Charisma gifts of the Spirit (God) are given to a believer when they are ready for them or desire them., Paul teahes these gifts many years after the Day of Pentecost. Most people do not know they have received the Holy Spirit as promised when they were baptized. Why because they are not taught that. They have never been taught how do I make a covenant with God. As far as teaching the dorea gift and the charisma gifts it would take to long to teach this for now.
But it does open the scriptures when you start to see what Paul is teaching.
Charles

[mimiparks102582]

Scripture Verse:

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Scripture Verse:

Acts 1:4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Scripture Verse:

Acts 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

I'm leaving this wide open for discussion.

Peace,

I didn't really understand what talking in tounge was until 3 days ago. I was at Joyce Meyers convention and it was the most wonderful thing. My friend received the gift. I have never experianced God in that way before.

[Glad-iator]

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