Romans 2:7

[KingsGambit]

Romans 2:7 is given in the NIV as: To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

In his New International Commentary, Douglas Moo writes:

It is a continual seeking after eternal rewards, accompanied by a persistent doing of what is good, that is the condition for a positive verdict at the judgment. Paul never denies the validity of this principle, but he goes on to show that no one meets the conditions necessary for this principle to become a reality.

If I am reading this correctly, this states what amounts to a hypothetical about how one might attain eternal life, but Paul is preparing to negate this as a practical possibility in 3:23. Is this reading correct?

[Paprika]

Romans 2:7 is given in the NIV as: To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

In his New International Commentary, Douglas Moo writes: If I am reading this correctly, this states what amounts to a hypothetical about how one might attain eternal life, but Paul is preparing to negate this as a practical possibility in 3:23. Is this reading correct?

I think you are reading Moo rightly.

Paul brings up the future judgment based on works. Does it not imply that some of one's good may make up for some of one's sins?

[Catholicity]

I think you are reading Moo rightly.

Paul brings up the future judgment based on works. Does it not imply that some of one's good may make up for some of one's sins?

The position of the RCC has always been that grace will save us, but we have a responsibility to maintain our state of grace by doing good works, even when we don't feel like it. Based not just on this verse but on Christ's words in Matthew, and the Words of James, I am inclined to agree with the interpretation of the RCC.

[Paprika]

The position of the RCC has always been that grace will save us, but we have a responsibility to maintain our state of grace by doing good works, even when we don't feel like it. Based not just on this verse but on Christ's words in Matthew, and the Words of James, I am inclined to agree with the interpretation of the RCC.

Well, it's not only a responsibility, but we do have incentive.

[Paprika]

KG: revisiting your original post, I'm not so sure Paul shows that "no one meets the conditions necessary for this principle to become a reality". What about the believers in Christ? More generally, I am not certain Paul has done that at all.

[Obsidian]

Romans 2
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
. . . .
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

How is that not a negation?

[KingsGambit]

KG: revisiting your original post, I'm not so sure Paul shows that "no one meets the conditions necessary for this principle to become a reality". What about the believers in Christ? More generally, I am not certain Paul has done that at all.

I gleaned that principle from 3:23, which seems to speak in a universal manner and doesn't specifically exclude believers from its scope.

[robrecht]

I gleaned that principle from 3:23, which seems to speak in a universal manner and doesn't specifically exclude believers from its scope.

In order to speak universally of God's grace, the God of both the Jews and the Gentiles, Paul chooses to challenge those Jewish Christians in Rome who boast in the law, but who do not in fact observe it, and he also speaks of the possibility of Gentiles showing by their actions and conscience that they too have the effect of the law written on their hearts. Paul speaks differently of Gentiles and Jews to persuade the Jewish Christians to esteem the Gentiles on more equal footing, and to attribute ultimate importance to faithfulness of God and Christ, without denying the value of the law given first to the Jews. I don't think Paul ever intended to negate (or render merely hypothetical) what he said in Romans 2 about conscience and God's judgment by his subsequent remarks in the rest of the letter.

[Paprika]

I gleaned that principle from 3:23, which seems to speak in a universal manner and doesn't specifically exclude believers from its scope.

"All have sinned" - yes, but that is not sufficient - "and fallen short of the glory of God". What does the second bit mean?

[Obsidian]

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

[Paprika]

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

So you're proposing identifying the glory of 2:7 as the glory of God in 3:23?

[mikewhitney]

[Paprika]

So you're proposing identifying the glory of 2:7 as the glory of God in 3:23?

My argument would be since the righteousness of God is different from the righteousness of Abraham, for example, we shouldn't assume that the glory of God (3:23) is necessarily equivalent to the glory in 2:7.