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Thread: The claim Christians don't believe . . . .

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    The claim Christians don't believe . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by jo1952 View Post
    One of the main things Christians don't believe about Christ is what He taught BEFORE Gethsemane and before His crucifixion:
    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    . . .
    Your claim against Christians is not true.
    What Christ finished [τελειόω] prior to the cross is not what He finished [τετέλεσται], paid in full, on the cross.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    Professor Catholicity's Avatar
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    Hey umm Jo you once told me the religious branch you were involved in, is it still the one related mormonism that was founded by one of Smith's relatives' Just curious. PM me if you like and I'm glad to see you.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Your claim against Christians is not true.
    What Christ finished [τελειόω] prior to the cross is not what He finished [τετέλεσται], paid in full, on the cross.

    John 17:



    5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

    13 ďI am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

    17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

    Jesus watched over his own, "Jesus Greater Than Moses" Hebrews 3:

    1Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all Godís house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5ďMoses was faithful as a servant in all Godís house,Ēa bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as the Son over Godís house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

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    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    From Jo's thread = The Decline ...
    Quote Originally Posted by jo1952 View Post
    One of the main things Christians don't believe about Christ is what He taught BEFORE Gethsemane and before His crucifixion:

    Instead, Christianity teaches that Christ's work was finished on the cross. Christianity also teaches that Christ died for our sins. He died BECAUSE of them; IOW, because of the iniquities of the people, they killed Him. Isaiah prophesied about this:

    Strong's dictionary explains that the use of the word "for" in the phrase "for our transgressions" (as well as the phrase "for our iniquities"--which is the belief that we are better, or chosen....in someway above others) is translated as such:

    This translation assists us in being able to see and accept what Christ taught when He said that He had finished the Father's work BEFORE Gethsemane and the cross. The teaching that Christ's work was finished on the cross is a false teaching taught by false prophets; that teaching teaches a false Christ. His work had already been finished; and, He died because of our transgressions. His death does not have the ability to save us from our transgressions; He died because of them. He DID teach a way to live in peace. He did not bring peace, as is evidenced by how we don't live the way He taught. The world is certainly NOT living in peace. While He did not enforce the way He taught, He WILL set up a government which will establish peace when He returns.

    Obviously, there hasn't even been a start to the peace that shall have no end. If anything, there has been even more hate generated through the religion created which uses His name. More often than not, those who claim His name attack those who question the doctrines and religious trappings of their "Christianity" (thus they use His name in vain). This is just another manifestation of how they don't believe Christ. He taught us methods of peace in dealing with others. The "religious" LOVE to put others down and make fun of the belief systems of those who don't agree with their own system. They have killed over it.

    Christ is giving us plenty of time for us to "repent" of the way we were living before He entered mortality the first time. The religious do plenty of "repenting"....they repent of their "sins" according to the "laws" which religions define as "sin". However, neither the religious nor the non-religious have "repented" of living their way of non-peace; which is why His message has not given us the power to create peace. He will set-up the same government which is the one that has been used worlds without end. It will finally be able to establish peace because we will be able to trust Him....He will be a truly righteous and fair Governor/administrator. Hence, every knee shall bow. We shall bow in recognition of His wisdom and worthiness of our trust. He will reign as Lord of lords, King of kings, the Prince of Peace!! That just hasn't started yet. We have first been given the chance to save ourselves from the mess we have made on earth. What He is going to save us from is our iniquities which cause us to not be able to live the method He taught.

    The Lord taught this about His church through His True Messenger, Joseph (but again, they don't believe Him as evidenced by everything that got added because they desired it):

    Here is the Lord's take on religion:

    If the Jews had understood this teaching, they would have given up their religion; but they loved their religion too much and were blind to what the Lord was teaching them through His True Messenger.

    Before you comment about how some may think that that message from the Lord was ONLY to the people of Sodom and/or Gomorrah, read here (it was not what most people think...i.e., it was not about sexual sin):

    (Keep in mind what pure religion is....and that it is not what religion teaches is religion.)

    It is because of the traditions of our fathers taught to us about Christ that people will not be able to see and hear what Christ taught about Himself. They will choose to see through the eyes of their religious beliefs; thus will only be able to see what they want to see. They are repeating what the Jews did through their religion. While Christ did not forbid the Jews to continue practicing their religion (because that would have interfered with their free will desire to live their religion), He DID teach those words which Father wanted Him to teach....and those words taught a way to live in peace. Even after more than 2000 years, we have not been able to live that way.
    I like everything this lady declares here.

    Cheers to thee.

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    From Jo's thread = The Decline ...

    I like everything this lady declares here.

    Cheers to thee.
    Jo was mentally unstable in real life. Like seriously unstable. And she was a Mormon/Gnostic.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  7. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Jo was mentally unstable in real life. Like seriously unstable. And she was a Mormon/Gnostic.
    I find it troubling that you would cut down a person like this, and obviously you expect me to embrace that prejudice.

    Being mentally unstable (if it is true?) does not mean the person has to be viewed as wrong or unknowing.

    A mentally ill person can still be accurate just as they can be brilliant or very intelligent.

    Have you not seen the true-life movie called = A Beautiful Mind? Link HERE.

    And I said that I liked what Jo said - so do you really expect that I would change my comment or my view based on your slander of that person?

    Do you not know the horrible wrong of this? = Attacking the messenger, or shooting the messenger.

    And by being Mormon/Gnostic she must be wrong too = well that is not correct in my view.

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Jo was mentally unstable in real life. Like seriously unstable. And she was a Mormon/Gnostic.
    Was she the one who married FrankTalk?

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Was she the one who married FrankTalk?
    Yes.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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    Thanks Old Man... Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    I find it troubling that you would cut down a person like this, and obviously you expect me to embrace that prejudice.
    No, stupid. I know more about this woman than you do from a single post.

    Being mentally unstable (if it is true?) does not mean the person has to be viewed as wrong or unknowing.
    Again, you know her from 1 single post. I know her real life circumstances. So please just shut up.

    And by being Mormon/Gnostic she must be wrong too = well that is not correct in my view.
    Well your views are stupid, so...


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  12. Amen Christianbookworm amen'd this post.

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