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Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human?

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  • Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human?

    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you.
    If they aren't saved by the incarnate Word of God they aren't saved at all, no matter what they might be personally feeling.

    If Jesus was only human it wouldn't have been possible for him to be sinless.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      If they aren't saved by the incarnate Word of God they aren't saved at all, no matter what they might be personally feeling.

      If Jesus was only human it wouldn't have been possible for him to be sinless.
      That is my thought as well -- could Jesus as a man have been sinless?

      The Unitarian said that he recognises that he is a sinner, tries to follow Jesus' commands and was baptised and he thinks that is enough.

      I say it is not enough.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe those who hold to the moral influence theory could make that case, but I don't think that model of atonement is supported by Scripture.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
          . . . -- could Jesus as a man have been sinless?
          Not being only the man.

          Romans 3:10,
          . . . As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: . . .

          Mark 10:17-18,
          . . . there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is,] God. . . .
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
            Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?
            This looks like an internal dispute among believers. I don't see what it's doing in an apologetics thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
              Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

              Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

              I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

              What do you guys think?
              God engineered the system - it all depends on how he chose to implement it (what ransom he chose to set). If he chose it so that it required a man-god to die a painful death, then it required a man-god to die a painful death. He could have implemented it so he could just say "I forgive you all" without anyone dying, but clearly decided not to.
              My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

              Comment


              • #8
                Hypothetically, yes, as God is able to do whatever He so pleases, so long as it's not self-contradictory (a circular square).

                There were those in the early church who believed that Jesus had been adopted by God at the time of his baptism, though I don't know how you can easily reconcile that with the Carmen Christi or much of Paul's Christology.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are supposedly orthodox views on the kenotic theory that might answer this question to your satisfaction. The book "Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God" has a number of essays from leading Christian philosophers and theologians who attempt to answer this in the positive. Some of the contributors include Gordon Fee, Stephen T. Davis, and Cornelius Plantinga, Jr. (Alvin's younger brother). I actually have this, but never got around to reading it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

                    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

                    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

                    What do you guys think?

                    Thank you.
                    No. A sinless sacrifice may have been sufficient to cover our sins, but could not renew our nature.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      If they aren't saved by the incarnate Word of God they aren't saved at all, no matter what they might be personally feeling.
                      Agreed.
                      If Jesus was only human it wouldn't have been possible for him to be sinless.
                      I don't know that I'd go that far. We have a propensity toward sin, not a predestination to sin.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the cross shows us God bearing the punishment for our sins, a human dying for sin would not be God bearing them.

                        Also, "by his wounds we are healed" (Isa. 53:5), I don't see how a human being wounded provides healing for our souls.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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                        • #13
                          The greatest act of love is to lay one's life down for one's friends. God is love. So, it would not make sense for a mere human to pull off the greatest act pf love and God to never do so. Except God can't die due to being intangible spirit(no parts to separate or damage). Hence, the Incarnation. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            The greatest act of love is to lay one's life down for one's friends. God is love. So, it would not make sense for a mere human to pull off the greatest act pf love and God to never do so. Except God can't die due to being intangible spirit(no parts to separate or damage). Hence, the Incarnation. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
                            Edited by a Moderator

                            Moderated By: Bill the Cat

                            This has been moved to the Christian only area. Please refrain from posting further in this thread.

                            ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                            Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                            Last edited by Bill the Cat; 09-12-2017, 08:49 AM. Reason: Posting in wrong area
                            My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
                              Edited by a Moderator
                              There are no sinless men (Romans 3:10-11). The only reason the man Jesus Christ was sinless was He was also the God being the Son of God (John 5:18). Now a mere sinless man can only die for one. In the capacity being equal to God a moment of suffering can equal the suffering of infinite men an infinite time.

                              Now a thing to note is that the atonement was completed on the cross prior to His physical death (John 19:28-30). And it was the forsaking of Him on the cross (Psalm 22:1; Mark 15:34). And it was His shed blood (1 Peter 1:19), the death of His soul (Isaiah 53:10, 12) by which He made the payment for sins (Isaiah 53:6). And after the payment (Romans 5:8; Romans 6:23) was made He again had fellowship with God His Father (Luke 23:46). ". . . it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: . . . " -- Luke 24:46.
                              Last edited by Bill the Cat; 09-12-2017, 08:49 AM.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment

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