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Philosophy 201 Guidelines

Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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A shared challenge regarding the foundation of ethics

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  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    It remains that the biased selective of citations does not reflect the view of the Baha'i Faith in the citations I provided.
    What are you talking about? Are you saying Abdu’l-Bahá was wrong? And you can read it all in context: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/S...=highlight#gr8

    And your quotes do not undermine Abdu’l-Bahá's point about Adam having a negative effect on all his descendants. Your quotes don't even address that issue.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      No Tass, I'm not letting you off the hook.
      I’m not letting you off the hook. Again: just what is 'morality' to you...a nebulous set of eternal values floating around in the ether or values emanating from a deity or what? Waiting!

      You constantly point to social cohesion as the goal for moral behavior
      No, ‘survival’ is basis of moral behaviour. The natural evolution of human behaviour predisposes the “survival” of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.

      yet you don't personally believe that because you are perfectly fine with upsetting said cohesion for a cause you agree with. So even by your own lights cohesion can't be the bottom line. So what is?
      Most people, including you, are OK with upsetting the community for a cause they think is just. This doesn’t mean they support the elimination of cohesive communities.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        I’m not letting you off the hook. Again: just what is 'morality' to you...a nebulous set of eternal values floating around in the ether or values emanating from a deity or what? Waiting!
        No Tass, these values are not nebulous, read your New Testament. And they emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from.


        No, ‘survival’ is basis of moral behaviour. The natural evolution of human behaviour predisposes the “survival” of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.
        But you can not even make the case that our survival is an objective moral good!

        Most people, including you, are OK with upsetting the community for a cause they think is just. This doesn’t mean they support the elimination of cohesive communities.
        [/QUOTE]

        See you moved from cohesion to justice. So cohesion is not enough, or the ultimate goal, but your 'nebulous' ideal of justice.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          No Tass, these values are not nebulous, read your New Testament. And they emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from.
          Not that seer will ever provide any evidence that this mind exists, or that it is the source of moral ideas.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Not that seer will ever provide any evidence that this mind exists, or that it is the source of moral ideas.
            Define evidence Roy...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              No Tass, these values are not nebulous, read your New Testament. And they emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from.
              They merely emanated from the minds of the authors of the NT and biblical arguments are weak. They invalidly presuppose both scriptural inerrancy and the truth of orthodox Christianity's own traditions about its origins.

              But you can not even make the case that our survival is an objective moral good!
              There’s no reason to. The survival instinct is the consequence of natural selection.

              See you moved from cohesion to justice. So cohesion is not enough, or the ultimate goal, but your 'nebulous' ideal of justice.
              Social cohesion is essential for the survival of a social species such as us, but “cohesion” does not necessarily equate to total conformity.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                not that seer will ever provide any evidence that this mind exists, or that it is the source of moral ideas.
                define evidence roy...
                q e d
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Social cohesion is essential for the survival of a social species such as us, but “cohesion” does not necessarily equate to total conformity.
                  What is more important Tass, cohesion or justice? If you could have cohesion without justice, like in North Korea, that wouldn't be a moral wrong - correct? And what if the movement towards justice caused constant social upheaval? That would be bad thing - correct?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    What is more important Tass, cohesion or justice? If you could have cohesion without justice, like in North Korea, that wouldn't be a moral wrong - correct? And what if the movement towards justice caused constant social upheaval? That would be bad thing - correct?
                    How about like under Constantine?
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      How about like under Constantine?
                      And your point is?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        And your point is?
                        Rulers often persecute, ethnically cleanse, and exterminate the opposition to preserve 'order and cohesion' throughout history from many different philosophical and religious perspectives. With Constantine and his son considered pagans and heathens as threat to 'order and cohesion' of Rome. Some Christian rulers like the Czars, of Europe it was Jews that were a threat to 'cohesion and order' and there were organized attempts to exterminate Jews as 'Christ killers.'
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Rulers often persecute, ethnically cleanse, and exterminate the opposition to preserve 'order and cohesion' throughout history from many different philosophical and religious perspectives. With Constantine and his son considered pagans and heathens as threat to 'order and cohesion' of Rome. Some Christian rulers like the Czars, of Europe it was Jews that were a threat to 'cohesion and order' and there were organized attempts to exterminate Jews as 'Christ killers.'
                          How does that answer the question I was asking Tass?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            What is more important Tass, cohesion or justice? If you could have cohesion without justice, like in North Korea, that wouldn't be a moral wrong - correct? And what if the movement towards justice caused constant social upheaval? That would be bad thing - correct?
                            For the umpteenth time, the survival of the species is the most important thing in evolutionary terms. The natural evolution of human behaviour is to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.

                            Now, justify your claim that “morals emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from”. Support this claim.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              For the umpteenth time, the survival of the species is the most important thing in evolutionary terms. The natural evolution of human behaviour is to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.
                              So cohesion trumps justice?

                              Now, justify your claim that “morals emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from”. Support this claim.
                              What? You mean moral principles don't come from minds?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                How does that answer the question I was asking Tass?
                                You were being to selective and biased, as usual. You use extreme examples to justify your agenda. In history governments like North Korea ultimately fail. In human history, and in primates cohesion and justice dominate over time, and social cooperation is essential or the community and the species will not survive.
                                Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-16-2017, 07:10 AM.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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