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Moody's Assessment of the Tax Overhaul

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  • #76
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Ummm.... no comment...
    Your "no comment" is, indeed, a comment! Just as not to decide is to decide!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Yes - my OP was that reports are that tax money is not being used to create jobs. The other report is NOT that tax money is creating jobs - it is just that jobs have been created. Correlation is not causation.
      I give up. Enjoy your delusion.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Your "no comment" is, indeed, a comment! Just as not to decide is to decide!
        No comment
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I give up. Enjoy your delusion.
          Likewise
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            There is no evidence that tax cuts directly impact the economy.

            Reagan cut taxes - economy soared.
            Clinton raised taxes - economy soared
            Bush cut taxes - economy tanked

            You can go back further in time and find even more examples. Tax cuts/raises and the economy show no sign of strong correlation. The economy has other, far more significant, engines.
            That wasn't the 'good' I was observing - I merely noted that the tax cuts had a good effect on you at least.


            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I told you earlier: When you said, "As expected, raising salaries and adding jobs is not something a business seeks to do. Managers will tell you it is always the course of last resorts and is done only when a business has no additional room to squeeze efficiency enhancements, or is expecting increased demand beyond what they can meet with efficiency enhancements. When a business gets more money, they do not immediately think, "let's make more jobs." " in the opening post.
              *emphasis mine

              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Yes - I said that, and stand by it. That is how businesses operate. That is even MY philosophy in MY business. There is nothing unethical about this approach, and no conflict with social justice. It does not make a company "bad." It is a fiscal reality. A business does not WANT to hire. Payroll is the most expensive part of most business' operating budget. No business I have ever encountered is actively seeking to hire unless they have increased demand they cannot meet by any other means (e.g., temp workers, contractors, efficiency increases, etc.).

              And we're seeing it unfolding in the shadow of the tax cuts. Although some businesses have announced plans to "grow the business" with the cuts, it is yet unclear how many jobs that will result in. Most businesses appear to be planning to use the new cash for stock-buy-back, increased dividends, mergers and acquisitions, and debt reduction. None of those things will create jobs.
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Reread the quote. It's the 'raising salaries' bit that's causing the problem.

              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              At this point, with dozens of threads in play, and several people kicking in, I have no idea what "the quote" refers to. I am, to some degree, lost.
              I think Sparky got a little lost on that one, too - it seemed to me that his initial objection was to the 'let's not raise salaries unless driven to it' thing implied in the quote.

              Not starting a hiring spree simply because you have funds is sound business and better for workers in the long term - jobs that aren't based in harder metrics tend to be the first to go on a downturn. But not raising salaries when wages have been abnormally stunted is a different matter.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                That wasn't the 'good' I was observing - I merely noted that the tax cuts had a good effect on you at least.

                Yes, they did. But they were designed to have a disproportionately beneficial effect on the top 1%, and I am in the top 1%, so that is no surprise. The problem, as Mr. Buffet has repeatedly affirmed, we are not the ones most in need of a tax cut. I'm doing fine. The people who work for me are also doing fine, because of how I believe in paying people. However, there is no doubt that they would benefit from a tax cut far more than I would. But, as far as I can tell, the new tax cut plan will put more money in my pocket than theirs.

                It's NOT a tax cut for the lower/middle class. It primarily enriches people like me, who don't need it.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #83
                  OK so I got my first paycheck under the new tax reform. I got $52 more (2 week period) so about $1352/year. Not bad. Thanks Trump.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    OK so I got my first paycheck under the new tax reform. I got $52 more (2 week period) so about $1352/year. Not bad. Thanks Trump.
                    Unfortunately since most folks have direct deposit and never see a pay check or stub any more, few will actually see it (though they might wonder why they have more money in the bank than they thought they did) so the Democrats/MSM will be able to trick them into thinking they got nothing or, as Pelosi characterizes it, pathetic crumbs[1]








                    1.Anyone else remember how ecstatically she lavished praise on the Obama-era $40 tax cut, calling it a "victory for America"?

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Yes, they did. But they were designed to have a disproportionately beneficial effect on the top 1%, and I am in the top 1%, so that is no surprise. The problem, as Mr. Buffet has repeatedly affirmed, we are not the ones most in need of a tax cut. I'm doing fine. The people who work for me are also doing fine, because of how I believe in paying people. However, there is no doubt that they would benefit from a tax cut far more than I would. But, as far as I can tell, the new tax cut plan will put more money in my pocket than theirs.

                      It's NOT a tax cut for the lower/middle class. It primarily enriches people like me, who don't need it.
                      Anyone else remember when Warren Buffet infamously complained that he was paying a lower rate than his secretary? Aside from dishonestly obfuscating things by deliberately confusing tax rates on capital gains and income it turned out that Buffet has actually done everything possible to avoid paying taxes that he actually owes.

                      For instance, his own company, Berkshire Hathaway[1], is doing everything it can to avoid paying taxes and actually owed nearly a Billion dollars in back taxes dating back to 2002. Another one of his companies was involved in a 14-year fight with the IRS over a dividend-received deduction that was finally settled in 2005. And he is also deeply involved in the purchase of Tim Horton's by Burger King so that the latter can move its offices to Canada in order to pay far less in taxes.

                      Liberals are increasingly notorious for showing their generosity by giving away other people's money while holding tightly on to their own. And if they're a politician they cheerfully raise tax rates never intending to pay them (see Charlie Rangel, Tom Daschle and Timothy Geithner as a short list of examples).








                      1. Which Buffet is the principle shareholder of (32.4%) as well as its chairman, president and CEO.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        You seem to be under the impression I'm upset. I'm actually not. The experience of people insisting they know what I mean is a tad frustrating, and largely pointless. But this is a forum. It does not warrant "upset."
                        It's kind of funny, but I would equate frustrated with upset. I thought most people would.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Anyone else remember when Warren Buffet infamously complained that he was paying a lower rate than his secretary? Aside from dishonestly obfuscating things by deliberately confusing tax rates on capital gains and income it turned out that Buffet has actually done everything possible to avoid paying taxes that he actually owes.

                          For instance, his own company, Berkshire Hathaway[1], is doing everything it can to avoid paying taxes and actually owed nearly a Billion dollars in back taxes dating back to 2002. Another one of his companies was involved in a 14-year fight with the IRS over a dividend-received deduction that was finally settled in 2005. And he is also deeply involved in the purchase of Tim Horton's by Burger King so that the latter can move its offices to Canada in order to pay far less in taxes.

                          Liberals are increasingly notorious for showing their generosity by giving away other people's money while holding tightly on to their own. And if they're a politician they cheerfully raise tax rates never intending to pay them (see Charlie Rangel, Tom Daschle and Timothy Geithner as a short list of examples).








                          1. Which Buffet is the principle shareholder of (32.4%) as well as its chairman, president and CEO.
                          carpedm is not in top 0.1%. How to tell???

                          Answer: he actually pays taxes he is supposed to.
                          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            It's kind of funny, but I would equate frustrated with upset. I thought most people would.
                            Then, by that definition, I guess I am "upset."

                            I can't say I feel "upset," just mildly frustrated now and then when I cannot seem to convey an idea in a way that people actually hear it. Usually my frustration starts with me. As a teacher, I assume that, if someone doesn't understand me, I am not communicating well. After several tries, however, if the situation perpetuates, I tend to start thinking the other person may be the problem: intentionally or unintentionally.

                            Note that I distinguish between "understand" and "agree." I know someone is not understanding when either a) they do not reflect back what I said accurately, or b) they ask questions or make statements that suggest they missed the point.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                              carpedm is not in top 0.1%. How to tell???

                              Answer: he actually pays taxes he is supposed to.
                              I'm definitely NOT in the top 0.1%. That would require an annual income in excess of $1M
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                I'm definitely NOT in the top 0.1%. That would require an annual income in excess of $1M
                                I see this "one decimal place" problem surface frequently.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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