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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Why don't YOU stop with your assumptions that those of us who are pro-life think people who have abortions are "bad people"? Would you like me to find that quote for you?
    The antipathy for pro-choice people is pretty evident, CP. It comes out in language like "abortion mills" and "Big Abortion" and all of the other ways that people manage to say "people are delighting in killing children, making a big business out of it, killing kids in a mill with the same ease they would process wool." It comes out in the taunting memes, and ridiculing phrases.

    If you think otherwise, then you aren't reading your own posts.

    So, yes, there is a general tone of "pro-choice people are bad" coming from the right, just as there is a tone of "pro-life people are bad coming from the left.

    There are people here who do NOT seem to delight in that kind of exchange. Tab comes to mind. I went back and reread his posts and realized he was right - I was painting him with the same brush when he actually never participated in ANY of that language. Guaca is another. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect he is pro-life. I have never seen that kind of derogatory/inflammatory language from him.

    If you don't want to be seen as derisive of the other side, then perhaps post with less derision?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      The antipathy for pro-choice people is pretty evident, CP. It comes out in language like "abortion mills" and "Big Abortion" and all of the other ways that people manage to say "people are delighting in killing children, making a big business out of it, killing kids in a mill with the same ease they would process wool." It comes out in the taunting memes, and ridiculing phrases.

      If you think otherwise, then you aren't reading your own posts.

      So, yes, there is a general tone of "pro-choice people are bad" coming from the right, just as there is a tone of "pro-life people are bad coming from the left.

      There are people here who do NOT seem to delight in that kind of exchange. Tab comes to mind. I went back and reread his posts and realized he was right - I was painting him with the same brush when he actually never participated in ANY of that language. Guaca is another. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect he is pro-life. I have never seen that kind of derogatory/inflammatory language from him.

      If you don't want to be seen as derisive of the other side, then perhaps post with less derision?
      Whatever you say, Mr Blog* of Tissue.



      *that was a typo, but I think it's rather fitting.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Whatever you say, Mr Blog* of Tissue.

        *that was a typo, but I think it's rather fitting.
        Yeah - the new computer coupled with the proximity of the "b" and "g" keys and my tendency to use "blog" more than "blob" in my writing leads to that typo happening a lot. I've corrected it dozens of times - but obviously not all of them.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I think you believe that you are.

          I think you do.

          Carpe, you can claim that til the cows come home, but I'm simply not buying it. I think you love to hear yourself talk (figuratively) and here's a topic where you can battle on!
          If it makes you feel better to hold on to that delusion...

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Wow..... should I play that childish game, too? WAAAAaannnnnnhhhhhh Carpe is LYING about what I said...... the more you object, the more I'm convinced you're just in it for the fight. That's my OPINION, and I'm not hiding ANYTHING. How on earth can "speculation" be a "lie"?:

          Whining? Carpe, you are by far the WORDIEST poster I've seen in a long time, and I honestly believe (get ready to call me a liar again) it works against you.
          You're right. I should have learned this lesson from my previous exchange with Sparko. I got caught up in "defending" myself and not wanting others to think badly of me there too. So I'll leave you to your misconception, and try to stay focused on the discussion at hand. I'm falling into the trap of being goaded into a reaction.

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          If I hate WHAT? Your bloviation? I think it's rather amusing!
          That was a response to your complaint about "this thread would die." I withdraw the observation.

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Actually, I'm not pretending NOT to be arrogant, so it's not hypocrisy.
          As you wish...


          ETA: BTW, I think you have reacted so strongly (and I doubt many could read your responses and not see "strongly" in them) is because I have touched a nerve. I think the care you express sharing with the people in the crisis clinic is at odds with your general language about abortion - and some part of you recognizes that disconnect. And I think, deep down, you recognize some amount of truth to what I am saying - but it would actually require you to examine your words and behavior and make some adjustments, and that would require swallowing your pride.

          Now THAT is mind reading! But I only think it because I think, fundamentally, you're a good person. A bit of a pompous ass - but basically good.
          Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-15-2019, 02:40 PM.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            And they say, "one side believes it is a human life at time X for the following scientific and philosophical reasons, and the other side believes it is life for the entire time based on their own (usually religious) agenda.
            Actually, the side that says it's a human life at the moment of conception has "settled science" on their side. It's the other side that tries to overturn scientific fact with humanist philosophy.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Actually, the side that says it's a human life at the moment of conception has "settled science" on their side. It's the other side that tries to overturn scientific fact with humanist philosophy.
              No. Unless "moment of conception" is considered to be more than (roughly) 24 hours after sperm enters ovum. It takes that long for fusion to be completed and form a living cell - which is why I don't oppose the "morning after pill."
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Actually, the side that says it's a human life at the moment of conception has "settled science" on their side. It's the other side that tries to overturn scientific fact with humanist philosophy.
                OK - so "win the debate" is more important than "stop the carnage." That's pretty much the message that's coming across from most people here.
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-15-2019, 02:45 PM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  If it makes you feel better to hold on to that delusion...
                  Now you're being childish - you do this when you get push back. Just because somebody has an opinion doesn't mean they do it "to feel better". You can be so grown up and adult at times, then you pull this immature crap.

                  You're right. I should have learned this lesson from my previous exchange with Sparko. I got caught up in "defending" myself and not wanting others to think badly of me there too. So I'll leave you to your misconception, and try to stay focused on the discussion at hand. I'm falling into the trap of being goaded into a reaction.
                  Yeah, I don't think you're quite the "professional communicator" you claim to be. (Forgive me if I don't have that exactly correct, and resist the temptation AGAIN to call me a liar )

                  That was a response to your complaint about "this thread would die." I withdraw the observation.
                  It was a nutty observation -- It's pretty much a fact --- you're the only person really arguing the one side.

                  As you wish...
                  Carpe - I am definitely one-sided on this issue. Passionately. If you don't like it, you can take your hands off the keyboard (whatever that little rant was)
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    No. Unless "moment of conception" is considered to be more than (roughly) 24 hours after sperm enters ovum. It takes that long for fusion to be completed and form a living cell - which is why I don't oppose the "morning after pill."
                    I actually place the moment at implantation. Until that happens, you have a collection of cells with essentially no future. They could become ectopic, or fail to implant and be washed out, etc. Once implantation has occurred you have the two basic conditions needed: a full DNA profile and a context in which those cells can develop into a person.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Now you're being childish - you do this when you get push back. Just because somebody has an opinion doesn't mean they do it "to feel better". You can be so grown up and adult at times, then you pull this immature crap.

                      Yeah, I don't think you're quite the "professional communicator" you claim to be. (Forgive me if I don't have that exactly correct, and resist the temptation AGAIN to call me a liar )

                      It was a nutty observation -- It's pretty much a fact --- you're the only person really arguing the one side.

                      Carpe - I am definitely one-sided on this issue. Passionately. If you don't like it, you can take your hands off the keyboard (whatever that little rant was)
                      Most of this does not merit a response, as per my previous post. Well, except to note that anyone who can post "WAAAAaannnnnnhhhhhh Carpe is LYING about what I said...... " and pepper their posts with should probably think twice about using "childish" as an accusatory adjective.

                      You missed my addition:

                      ETA: BTW, I think you have reacted so strongly (and I doubt many could read your responses and not see "strongly" in them) is because I have touched a nerve. I think the care you express sharing with the people in the crisis clinic is at odds with your general language about abortion - and some part of you recognizes that disconnect. And I think, deep down, you recognize some amount of truth to what I am saying - but it would actually require you to examine your words and behavior and make some adjustments, and that would require swallowing your pride.

                      Now THAT is mind reading! But I only think it because I think, fundamentally, you're a good person. A bit of a pompous ass - but basically good.
                      Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-15-2019, 02:52 PM.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        You start by acknowledging their concerns....



                        No - you start the way I suggested in a previous post - by acknowledging their concerns. By listening to their arguments without assuming "they're wrong!" and "they're bad." ANd then by putting forward a request to work together in a way that will address the concerns of BOTH sides.

                        Remember - there is common ground - we actually DO share the same moral framework. And there ARE strategies for reducing abortions. Frankly, I don't know a single pro-choicer that is "pro-abortion." Every single one I know personally recognizes that abortion is not a great option - and unwanted pregnancies are not a great thing.

                        Try assuming "they're good people" as a starting place.
                        Next time, try asking them why they don't consider abortion "a great option". If a fetus is not a human life but is just a lump of unwanted tissue like a colon polyp then what's the problem?

                        I also wonder how far you're willing to stretch your "good people" presumption.

                        "Pedophiles are good people. They simply disagree with you about the age of consent."

                        "Muslim terrorists are good people who sincerely believe they are doing God's will."
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Most of this does not merit a response, as per my previous post.
                          But here you are! You just can't HEPPP YERSEFF.

                          Well, except to note that anyone who can post "WAAAAaannnnnnhhhhhh Carpe is LYING about what I said...... " and pepper their posts with should probably think twice about using "childish" as an accusatory adjective.
                          I'm not the guy claiming to be a professional communicator, and I've never said I've grown up!

                          You missed my addition:
                          I wasn't aiming for it.

                          ETA: BTW, I think you have reacted so strongly (and I doubt many could read your responses and not see "strongly" in them) is because I have touched a nerve.
                          You're doing that mind reading thing again. I'm very dispassionate when being dismissive.

                          I think the care you express sharing with the people in the crisis clinic is at odds with your general language about abortion - and some part of you recognizes that disconnect.
                          Well DUH!!!!! They're good people in crisis and you're an internet blogger.

                          And I think, deep down, you recognize some amount of truth to what I am saying -
                          I have a recommendation. How bout making an attempt to put it in concise succinct words -- you know, the heart of the matter, the crux, the gist of the thing.

                          but it would actually require you to examine your words and behavior and make some adjustments, and that would require swallowing your pride.
                          OK, that got a laugh. You can be a pompous ass, but I have to.....

                          Now THAT is mind reading! But I only think it because I think, fundamentally, you're a good person. A bit of a pompous ass - but basically good.
                          So, a GOOD pompous ass, as opposed to you ......
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Next time, try asking them why they don't consider abortion "a great option". If a fetus is not a human life but is just a lump of unwanted tissue like a colon polyp then what's the problem?

                            I also wonder how far you're willing to stretch your "good people" presumption.

                            "Pedophiles are good people. They simply disagree with you about the age of consent."

                            "Muslim terrorists are good people who sincerely believe they are doing God's will."
                            So, the war is preferable. I understand.

                            History tells us it will not end - and the pattern of those 50 years and current demographics suggests you are likely to lose it, resulting in millions of deaths.

                            But I'm sure that's not a significant issue. After all - you can take comfort in "I was right!"

                            I would prefer to approach it differently.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              But here you are! You just can't HEPPP YERSEFF.

                              I'm not the guy claiming to be a professional communicator, and I've never said I've grown up!

                              I wasn't aiming for it.

                              You're doing that mind reading thing again. I'm very dispassionate when being dismissive.

                              Well DUH!!!!! They're good people in crisis and you're an internet blogger.

                              I have a recommendation. How bout making an attempt to put it in concise succinct words -- you know, the heart of the matter, the crux, the gist of the thing.

                              OK, that got a laugh. You can be a pompous ass, but I have to.....

                              So, a GOOD pompous ass, as opposed to you ......
                              As you said, CP, the more you feel a need to respond - the more you confirm it. (Shakespeare said it better: "the [man] doth protest too much!")

                              And I've just realized just how much your posts are designed to provoke a reaction and goad others. I'm a little embarrassed that I fell for it.

                              I think I'll put you back in the "hoped for 1% camp." I suspect you will be giving much of what I've said some thought. You have too often revealed that you actually consider ideas and sometimes try to make changes. If I were a praying man, I'd pray for ya!
                              Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-15-2019, 03:30 PM.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                It doesn't say it all at all. "Planned Parenthood is one of the nation’s leading providers of high-quality, affordable health care, and the nation’s largest provider of sex education".

                                https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/our-services
                                What does this have to do with the price of cheese in Denmark?
                                “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

                                Comment

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