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  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    As I stated, you supported Zara's argument.
    No, i dug into the absurd idea that a sufficiently strong logical argument could undo the implications of the data as regards deducing what the shape of the earth is or what stars are.

    The arguments you were making showed a very limited understanding of how science works or what the actual data is.

    Jim

    ETA: im not a fan of argument from authority, but i do find it silly when people that barely have a high school understanding of science think they can understand what makes sense regarding a topic like global warming over and against people with real PhDs from top universities and who have worked and researched the field for decades.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-09-2019, 10:30 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      No, i dug into the absurd idea that a sufficiently strong logical argument could undo the implications of the data as regards deducing what the shape of the earth is or what stars are.

      The arguments you were making showed a very limited understanding of how science works or what the actual data is.

      Jim

      ETA: im not a fan of argument from authority, but i do find it silly when people that barely have a high school understanding of science think they can understand what makes sense regarding a topic like global warming over and against people with real PhDs from top universities and who have worked and researched the field for decades.
      I'm also not a big fan of arguments from authority in all parts of discussion, particular when science starts making claims about meaning and normativity. I.e., when it significantly oversteps its bounds under the banner of naturalism and similar reductionist ontologies. That is not the case with climate science - hence the stone wall against deniers.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
        Diptels are frank and strictly private communications. By definition, they cannot cause offence, because the persons talked about behind their backs, don’t hear about it. That is why the leak alone and not the contents of the several diptels, is where the fault lies. Experienced officials in the US government understand this. It is an embarrassing incident made much worse by Trump’s reaction.
        I see, so it's everybody else's fault but the guy who actually wrote the memo. Got it.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I see, so it's everybody else's fault but the guy who actually wrote the memo. Got it.
          That is exactly correct

          It was between he and his government and he should be free to express what he believes to be true to them.

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            That is exactly correct

            It was between he and his government and he should be free to express what he believes to be true to them.

            Jim
            If I didn't know any better, I would assume this was sarcasm.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • And now the so-called "ambassador" has done the only honorable thing he could do: resign.

              https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201..._medium=banner
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • So when it became known that Hillary had a private email server and was sending out classified documents from it, was the problem what she was doing, or the leak?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  So when it became known that Hillary had a private email server and was sending out classified documents from it, was the problem what she was doing, or the leak?
                  Completely orthogonal situations sparko. No analogy possible. The ambassador was just doing his job, the communique was supposed to be private. Clinton was housing classified information on an insecure and public network.

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    The ambassador was just doing his job...
                    It was his job to write nasty screeds about the leaders of foreign nations?

                    Theresa May tried to defend him saying, "Good government depends on public servants being able to give full and frank advice."

                    Except what he wrote wasn't "advice", it was mean-spirited insults delivered under the pretense of an official government communique. It reveals a man who is petty, vindictive, and unable to fairly and knowledgly assess others. If this is the quality of "advice" he had been giving his bosses over the years then the British government has been very poorly served.

                    Good riddance.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      It was his job to write nasty screeds about the leaders of foreign nations?

                      Theresa May tried to defend him saying, "Good government depends on public servants being able to give full and frank advice."

                      Except what he wrote wasn't "advice", it was mean-spirited insults delivered under the pretense of an official government communique. It reveals a man who is petty, vindictive, and unable to fairly and knowledgly assess others. If this is the quality of "advice" he had been giving his bosses over the years then the British government has been very poorly served.

                      Good riddance.
                      He was telling it like he saw it. That's his job. He saw the president as incompetent, ect etc. and he relayed that assessment to his government. Our ambassadors do the same kind of assessments of foreign leaders. The problem was the leak, and the leak lost him his job.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Completely orthogonal situations sparko. No analogy possible. The ambassador was just doing his job, the communique was supposed to be private. Clinton was housing classified information on an insecure and public network.

                        Jim
                        Oh come on Jim. It is a perfect analogy. It shows that the action is the cause of the controversy, not the leak. People can be upset that a leak happened (they were mad at Wikileaks) but they were more upset about Hillary's action. Same with the Ambassador. They are upset a leak happened but his words are what everyone is really upset about and what the controversy is about.

                        I realize you don't want to admit you are wrong, but you are.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          And now the so-called "ambassador" has done the only honorable thing he could do: resign.

                          https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201..._medium=banner
                          Honor is not even an issue here. The man did nothing wrong. He resigned because trump decided to extract revenge because he found out the ambassador said unflattering things about him This is what Trump is and how he operates.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            No, i dug into the absurd idea that a sufficiently strong logical argument could undo the implications of the data as regards deducing what the shape of the earth is or what stars are.

                            The arguments you were making showed a very limited understanding of how science works or what the actual data is.

                            Jim

                            ETA: im not a fan of argument from authority, but i do find it silly when people that barely have a high school understanding of science think they can understand what makes sense regarding a topic like global warming over and against people with real PhDs from top universities and who have worked and researched the field for decades.

                            My argument was that the research stands or falls on its own merit - and the basics of methodology do not change. If you (general) can't show methodological validity, your paper isn't worth reading. I never argued the logic overrules data - one supports the other. That nonsense is your prejudice against any and all skepticism, regardless of rationale.

                            The reverse applies to you. You've obviously never read anything regarding diplomacy or international relations and very clearly don't understand the principles of either. You posit the absurd notion that sensitive documents should be crudely written in the interest of being 'frank and honest'. Well, that's exactly what just caused an international incident.

                            I chose the word absurd deliberately. It's 'frank and honest' and correct. Diplomatic documents are intel gold - assuming they won't be compromised is like a teen aged girl assuming her kid brother won't read her securely locked and hidden diary.
                            Last edited by Teallaura; 07-10-2019, 08:42 AM.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Oh come on Jim. It is a perfect analogy. It shows that the action is the cause of the controversy, not the leak. People can be upset that a leak happened (they were mad at Wikileaks) but they were more upset about Hillary's action. Same with the Ambassador. They are upset a leak happened but his words are what everyone is really upset about and what the controversy is about.

                              I realize you don't want to admit you are wrong, but you are.
                              It's his job to relay his honest assessment of the president to his government, that's the job of an ambassador. That is what ambassadors all over the world do. Somebody leaked it, and that is the problem. Had his assessment of the presidents incompetence not been leaked you and the president wouldn't be upset.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                It's his job to relay his honest assessment of the president to his government, that's the job of an ambassador. That is what ambassadors all over the world do. Somebody leaked it, and that is the problem. Had his assessment of the presidents incompetence not been leaked you and the president wouldn't be upset.
                                Whether true or not that has nothing to do with the analogy I gave. The "action" in the analogy doesn't matter, except that it is something people are up in arms about and not the leak that exposed it. You are just trying to pick apart the analogy because you don't want to admit you are wrong in your debate with Teal. But regardless of whether he was "doing his job" - the fact remains that his words are what is the actual controversy, not the leak, and if he had worded his reports better, there would be no controversy even if they had been leaked. If they had leaked that Hillary was using a government server and following protocol would there have been any controversy? People would just shrug and say "good for her"

                                Comment

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