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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Yeah...not so much. Look - an expert is more likely to have a correct opinion, by virtue of the fact that they are an expert. I grant you that. But that doesn't mean any of us should simply blindly accept what an expert says because they are an expert. Rogue's and Seer's response boiled down to "who are you to question an expert?" Who I am is a rational, thinking human being who can do some research, evaluate arguments, and weigh them on their merits. I've put forward my reasons for my immigration positions and the wall. If someone wants to tackle the issues raised, I'm happy to discuss. If they just want to declare that "experts disagree with me," then they haven't made an argument; they've just observed a situation. I already know I disagree with a few experts. That doesn't advance the discussion, IMO.

    And I am way past repeating myself, so I'll leave the last word on "experts" to y'all. If anyone wants to discuss the actual issues, I'm happy to engage.
    Very good explanation. The fact that you needed to explain it is - however - not so good
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      If the wall was the most effective bang for the buck, then it could perhaps be justified ... if.

      What evidence is there that is the best long term use of the billions required to create and maintain it?

      Jim
      because the alternative is larger and larger caravans coming to the US and overwhelming the camps and causing a humanitarian aid problem with the overcrowded conditions.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Yeah...not so much. Look - an expert is more likely to have a correct opinion, by virtue of the fact that they are an expert. I grant you that. But that doesn't mean any of us should simply blindly accept what an expert says because they are an expert. Rogue's and Seer's response boiled down to "who are you to question an expert?" Who I am is a rational, thinking human being who can do some research, evaluate arguments, and weigh them on their merits. I've put forward my reasons for my immigration positions and the wall. If someone wants to tackle the issues raised, I'm happy to discuss. If they just want to declare that "experts disagree with me," then they haven't made an argument; they've just observed a situation. I already know I disagree with a few experts. That doesn't advance the discussion, IMO.

        And I am way past repeating myself, so I'll leave the last word on "experts" to y'all. If anyone wants to discuss the actual issues, I'm happy to engage.
        So basically we should just ignore your personal opinion because you have absolutely no expertise or knowledge of the situation, or of walls and are just an arm-chair pontificator spouting off nonsense? OK!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          So basically we should just ignore your personal opinion because you have absolutely no expertise or knowledge of the situation, or of walls and are just an arm-chair pontificator spouting off nonsense? OK!
          Sounds more like a personal attack than an argument.
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Sounds more like a personal attack than an argument.
            It was merely a question.

            This is a personal attack:
            Chuck, you are a troll and a moron who nobody takes seriously. If we had a way to do it, I would dub you the Official Peanut Gallery of Theologyweb. Feel free to add that to your profile if you want.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              It was merely a question.

              This is a personal attack:
              Chuck, you are a troll and a moron who nobody takes seriously. If we had a way to do it, I would dub you the Official Peanut Gallery of Theologyweb. Feel free to add that to your profile if you want.
              Not only a question. And the part that was a question implied stuff about the person that did not go along the lines of the post it was a reply to. He actually wrote: "Who I am is a rational, thinking human being who can do some research, evaluate arguments, and weigh them on their merits. I've put forward my reasons for my immigration positions and the wall. If someone wants to tackle the issues raised, I'm happy to discuss. If they just want to declare that "experts disagree with me," then they haven't made an argument; they've just observed a situation. I already know I disagree with a few experts. That doesn't advance the discussion, IMO."

              No need for your question based on that. And it is quite easy to see that you try to signal something completely different from what he wrote.
              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                The observation that "an eleven-foot ladder defeats a ten-foot wall" has been well-worn. No one claims that a wall alone will solve the problem. The claim is that a wall will *impede* the invaders, and be one tool among many to help the beleaguered border personnel.
                An 11-foot ladder might defeat a 10-foot wall, but a 10-foot wall beats no wall!
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  BUUUURP
                  Yeah I thought that is what you said. Excuse you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    An 11-foot ladder might defeat a 10-foot wall, but a 10-foot wall beats no wall!
                    Yup. Walls and fences have been used successfully for thousands of years. But now, all of a sudden, in just this one case, they would be completely useless?

                    They act as if we would just put up a fence and then ignore it. They would be patrolled, probably have sensors, etc. It's a lot easier for an ICE outpost to patrol 30 miles of fence than 30 miles of open desert.

                    Comment


                    • Whether or not an eleven foot ladder beats a ten foot fence depends on how you plan to get down the other side. With a twenty foot wall you're courting a world of pain if you jump...
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        Yeah...not so much. Look - an expert is more likely to have a correct opinion, by virtue of the fact that they are an expert. I grant you that. But that doesn't mean any of us should simply blindly accept what an expert says because they are an expert. Rogue's and Seer's response boiled down to "who are you to question an expert?" Who I am is a rational, thinking human being who can do some research, evaluate arguments, and weigh them on their merits. I've put forward my reasons for my immigration positions and the wall. If someone wants to tackle the issues raised, I'm happy to discuss. If they just want to declare that "experts disagree with me," then they haven't made an argument; they've just observed a situation. I already know I disagree with a few experts. That doesn't advance the discussion, IMO.

                        And I am way past repeating myself, so I'll leave the last word on "experts" to y'all. If anyone wants to discuss the actual issues, I'm happy to engage.
                        It must be difficult for those who do not realise the fallacy to know what to think when two experts disagree.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Whether or not an eleven foot ladder beats a ten foot fence depends on how you plan to get down the other side. With a twenty foot wall you're courting a world of pain if you jump...
                          Well these guys thought they could drive over it, but they got stuck.


                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Well these guys thought they could drive over it, but they got stuck.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Well these guys thought they could drive over it, but they got stuck.

                              I wonder if they said the Spanish version of "Hey, bubba - hold my beer and watch THIS!"
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                It must be difficult for those who do not realise the fallacy to know what to think when two experts disagree.
                                In my experience, they simply choose the "expert" that aligns with their pre-existing POV and discount the expertise of the other person. I've seen it over and over again, from both directions.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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