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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    Abolition of slavery and the emancipation of women - to name just two.
    I'm not sure what you mean by the emancipation of women. You think Catholic Church, or I, support modern feminism?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      So what? According your own religion slavery was not a violation of Spiritual laws back in the day. But again, I'm glad your Prophet followed the good example of Christian abolitionists.
      You of course do not accept the progressive revelation and spiritual evolution of humanity as the physical evolution. Then you have a sere problem objecting to slavery based on your scripture. Not mine.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        You of course do not accept the progressive revelation and spiritual evolution of humanity as the physical evolution. Then you have a sere problem objecting to slavery based on your scripture. Not mine.
        Shuny, where did I ever objective to slavery in general? I objected to slavery based on kidnapping, since man stealing is a sin in both Testaments. And slavery in the West was largely based on kidnapping. And the fact that slave holders often treated slaves badly violating New Testament principles.

        Eph 6:9 "And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."

        Col 4:1 "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven."
        Last edited by seer; 02-23-2020, 03:42 PM.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Shuny, where did I ever objective to slavery in general? I objected to slavery based on kidnapping, since man stealing is a sin in both Testaments. And slavery in the West was largely based on kidnapping. And the fact that slave holders often treated slaves badly violating New Testament principles.

          Eph 6:9 "And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."

          Col 4:1 "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, for you know that you also have a Master in heaven."
          It is very sad and tragic that you conditionally accept slavery in one form or another.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            It is very sad and tragic that you conditionally accept slavery in one form or another.
            According to whom? You?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              According to whom? You?
              According to anyone with an acceptable contemporary international standard of morals and ethics, and of course the Baha'i spiritual laws which you reject.

              If you are considering the Biblical standard. Foreign slaves were captured, bought, sold and owned including their ancestors.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-23-2020, 06:39 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                According to anyone with an acceptable contemporary international standard of morals and ethics, and of course the Baha'i spiritual laws which you reject.

                If you are considering the Biblical standard. Foreign slaves were captured, bought, sold and owned including their ancestors.
                Talk to the hand...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Talk to the hand...
                  . . . which hand?
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I'm not sure what you mean by the emancipation of women. You think Catholic Church, or I, support modern feminism?
                    Throughout most of its history the Christian Church opposed women's suffrage on its belief that a woman's place is in the home.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      . . . which hand?
                      Shuny, the point is slavery is a temporal condition. Scripture is much more concerned with our eternal estate. A slave can be free in Christ, and a free man, like yourself, can be in bondage in sin and lost. Temporal slavery is a secondary consideration.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Throughout most of its history the Christian Church opposed women's suffrage on its belief that a woman's place is in the home.
                        There is nothing in Scripture that says a woman can not vote or have a career and yes I think that being a homemaker and mother is the woman's highest calling. As far as other mores of the day like abortion, gay marriage, contraception or convenient divorce the Catholic Church is dead set against.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Shuny, the point is slavery is a temporal condition. Scripture is much more concerned with our eternal estate. A slave can be free in Christ, and a free man, like yourself, can be in bondage in sin and lost. Temporal slavery is a secondary consideration.
                          Scripture also is the standard of morality and ethics, which you are avoiding to suit your agenda. The fact that your view reflects and ancient view and the Baha'i view which reflects the morals and ethics of the contemporary world demonstrates the progressive Revelation of the spiritual advancement of humanity concerning the standards of the world.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            There is nothing in Scripture that says a woman can not vote or have a career
                            And yet scripture was invoked in Christian countries for centuries to deny women the vote and keep them from positions of leadership - just as it was invoked to justify slave ownership.

                            and yes I think that being a homemaker and mother is the woman's highest calling.
                            Do you now. Surely the role of women is for the woman to decide.

                            As far as other mores of the day like abortion, gay marriage, contraception .
                            This will change in time as the Christian church comes in to line with the majority opinion of its own members. It has already in many instances.

                            or convenient divorce the Catholic Church is dead set against
                            Just as well Donald is an Evangelical then and not a Catholic, given his two divorces and three marriages.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              Scripture also is the standard of morality and ethics, which you are avoiding to suit your agenda. The fact that your view reflects and ancient view and the Baha'i view which reflects the morals and ethics of the contemporary world demonstrates the progressive Revelation of the spiritual advancement of humanity concerning the standards of the world.
                              Oh stop Shuny, your prophet jumped on the bandwagon long after Christians started the Abolition movement.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                And yet scripture was invoked in Christian countries for centuries to deny women the vote and keep them from positions of leadership - just as it was invoked to justify slave ownership.
                                Which Scriptures are you speaking of as far as the vote is concerned?


                                This will change in time as the Christian church comes in to line with the majority opinion of its own members. It has already in many instances.
                                I don't see that changing in the Catholic anytime soon, or in my church.

                                Just as well Donald is an Evangelical then and not a Catholic, given his two divorces and three marriages.
                                I don't think Trump is anything more than a cultural Christian, even so there is forgiveness in Christ - we are all sinners.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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