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John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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  • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    John 1:14
    καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν etc.

    Most translations have "and dwelt among us"

    A faulty translation due to the misunderstanding of the preceding "and the word became flesh"

    ἐν = within

    "among us" would have been μεθ' ἡμῶν -- μετά = with

    The same ἐν used in John 14:20,
    ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ γνώσεσθε ὑμεῖς ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί μου καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν ὑμῖν

    Here no one translates with "among us"
    https://biblehub.com/john/14-20.htm

    proving the trinitarian corruption

    Question also was: who are/were the "we" of John 1:14?

    " ...and we saw His glory..."

    I bet only those who did receive the true light
    And you have or have not?

    John 1:1, . . . και θεος ην ο λογος . . . .

    John 1:14, . . . και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν . . . .

    John 20:28, . . . και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου . . . .
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
      John 1:14
      καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν etc.

      Most translations have "and dwelt among us"

      A faulty translation due to the misunderstanding of the preceding "and the word became flesh"

      ἐν = within
      Source: Louw-Nida

      … a position within an area determined by other objects and distributed among such objects—‘among, with.’

      Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 712–713.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Blessings,
      Lee
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
        John 1:14
        καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν etc.

        Most translations have "and dwelt among us"

        A faulty translation due to the misunderstanding of the preceding "and the word became flesh"

        ἐν = within

        "among us" would have been μεθ' ἡμῶν -- μετά = with

        The same ἐν used in John 14:20,
        ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ γνώσεσθε ὑμεῖς ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί μου καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν ὑμῖν

        Here no one translates with "among us"
        https://biblehub.com/john/14-20.htm
        For one thing, "you" is not "us". υμεις is not ημιν. Second person plural is not first person plural.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          For one thing, "you" is not "us". υμεις is not ημιν. Second person plural is not first person plural.
          yes that was a typo

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            Source: Louw-Nida

            … a position within an area determined by other objects and distributed among such objects—‘among, with.’

            Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 712–713.

            © Copyright Original Source



            Blessings,
            Lee

            The first word of John is also ἐν

            Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

            It corresponds with the ἐν in John 1:14

            Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν



            ἀρχή is a word

            ἀρχή = beginning; origin; first cause; ruling power, authority, ruler; elementary principle; corner (of a cloth)

            Comment


            • Ἐν ἀρχῇ translates "b'reishit", the first word of the Hebrew bible = Torah = (Greek) νόμος

              So John 1:17 is other formulation of "and the word became flesh" :

              ὅτι ὁ νόμος διὰ Μωϋσέως ἐδόθη, ἡ χάρις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐγένετο.

              https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/989778752543641600

              for the law was given through Moses, the grace and the truth came through Jesus Christ.

              Comment


              • this hits the nail on the head;

                https://www.wowdiscoveries.com/what-is-gematria

                The Bible tells us that God, created the universe with His speech. When the Bible uses human terms to describe God it is speaking in the language of man so that we can understand the Bible. However, God is not a physical being that He would have a mouth to speak.
                By insisiting on that Jesus should be the word and also God the trinitarians bury the word of which John speaks in his prologue.

                Like if it doesn't matter.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                  this hits the nail on the head;

                  https://www.wowdiscoveries.com/what-is-gematria



                  By insisiting on that Jesus should be the word and also God the trinitarians bury the word of which John speaks in his prologue.

                  Like if it doesn't matter.
                  Nobody is saying that Jesus is God's literal voice.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Nobody is saying that Jesus is God's literal voice.
                    Look at this Edited by a Moderator

                    https://www.debijbel.nl/bijbel/BGT/Johannes-1

                    Although Dutch it is wording it like you would do in English

                    Moderated By: rogue06


                    Please be more careful about your language in the future. Thanks.

                    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                    Last edited by rogue06; 02-03-2020, 03:32 PM.

                    Comment


                    • He compares it to the sun

                      https://www.wowdiscoveries.com/what-is-gematria


                      The anaogy of this is the sun. Within the sun there is light only it is one and the same as the sun and a single ray of light cannot be distiguished. But once the ray is emitted from the sun it becomes a separate entity. But this is only a perception as nothing can be truly separated from its source.
                      the word in the beginning is the source

                      https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1127438742409576453

                      the source even of all languages.

                      source = Greek πηγη

                      LXX translates the "ed" of Genesis 2:6 with πηγη

                      (it went up to water the entire surface of the ground so that Hashem God could form man out of it)

                      πηγη also in Revelation 21:6

                      to the thirsty i will give to drink out of the source of the water of life for free

                      Comment


                      • In nutshell, Jesus called theos does not make Jesus really God in nature because God is one in 1 Corn 8:4 but Jesus was siting with the Father on his throne in Rev 3:21 where Jesus said "I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          In nutshell, Jesus called theos does not make Jesus really God in nature because God is one in 1 Corn 8:4 but Jesus was siting with the Father on his throne in Rev 3:21 where Jesus said "I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne"
                          well you got the NUT part right.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                            In nutshell, Jesus called theos does not make Jesus really God in nature because God is one in 1 Corn 8:4 but Jesus was siting with the Father on his throne in Rev 3:21 where Jesus said "I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne"
                            You're arguing against modalism, Patrick.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              You're arguing against modalism, Patrick.
                              He sits around for a while till he thinks people have forgotten about a thread, then just repeats the same nonsense that was refuted over and over earlier in the thread.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                                You're arguing against modalism, Patrick.
                                The fact remains that Biblically Jesus cannot be GOD and be with God as per John 1:1-2.

                                Comment

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