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Fiscal Responsibility is Dead

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  • #16
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    We have a program we started in our community called "Neighbor Helping Neighbor." Those who have contribute. Those who do not, do not. Those who need come for assistance. Because they are getting that help from their neighbors, the incidence of "taking advantage" is extremely rare. It is a model we are looking to replicate in other communities.
    Never said anything about being taken advantage of, but how many can afford to keep this going, without income coming in?

    In this time, the donor pool has contracted, but the donations have actually increased. The demand, interestingly, has actually not risen considerably. Everyone is doing everything they can to make do with the bare minimum.
    Still doesn’t answer ‘Can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?’

    I'm proud of that in this community. Red and blue makes no difference as we are all pitching in to help out.

    As I noted - this COULD be a time to draw the best out of all of us. Or it will just be another opportunity to be partisan and continue to bicker. I suspect the latter will be the nrom for most of the country. That is already manifest...
    That still doesn’t answer what I asked, “can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?”
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
      Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

      In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.
      Even if the Democrats confiscated 100% of the wealth from working Americans, it would be nowhere close to enough to fund all of their social programs. It's funny how they never think it's an option to cut taxes and let people keep the money they've earned.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        I've seen no proposal for tax changes in any of the reports I've seen about this bill. Have you seen something I've missed?
        I would think that would be a "step two" -- "now that we have this MASSIVE debt, which, of course, was absolutely necessary, we must assure that everybody 'pay their fair share' and...."
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          We have a program we started in our community called "Neighbor Helping Neighbor." Those who have contribute. Those who do not, do not. Those who need come for assistance. Because they are getting that help from their neighbors, the incidence of "taking advantage" is extremely rare. It is a model we are looking to replicate in other communities....
          This is the model with which I am very much involved every day of my life - one KEY ingredient is accountability and trust. (ok, that's two. But, really, one.)

          If people see that money is being managed well - there are no extravagant "CEO" salaries or huge corporate offices - they're far more likely to contribute, especially if it's helping "the guy next door" as opposed to some guy across the country. (Yeah, I know, that shouldn't matter, but facts is facts)
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            Never said anything about being taken advantage of, but how many can afford to keep this going, without income coming in?
            If you check your stats, Pix, you'll find the economy is not "shutdown," despite the hype. Unemployment is at 14.5%, not 100%. That leaves 85.5% working and generating an income. Those who have are helping those who have not. Those who have not are, to the degree they can, pitching in to prepare community gardens, helping to deliver food, etc. It's a community. We help each other.

            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            Still doesn’t answer ‘Can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?’

            That still doesn’t answer what I asked, “can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?”
            As long as those who have continue to share with those who have not...we can do this indefinitely. The economy shrank - it didn't disappear.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I would think that would be a "step two" -- "now that we have this MASSIVE debt, which, of course, was absolutely necessary, we must assure that everybody 'pay their fair share' and...."
              I'm tired of a "step two" that never materializes. Everyone is happy when the spending happens - and then they turn as yellow as Homer's backside when the time comes to adjust the income to pay the bills.

              The source of the funding should be stipulated in any spending bill - and a balanced budget should be a requirement at all times except a time of crisis and a time of war. Even then - the spending should have an attached plan for payment.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                This is the model with which I am very much involved every day of my life - one KEY ingredient is accountability and trust. (ok, that's two. But, really, one.)

                If people see that money is being managed well - there are no extravagant "CEO" salaries or huge corporate offices - they're far more likely to contribute, especially if it's helping "the guy next door" as opposed to some guy across the country. (Yeah, I know, that shouldn't matter, but facts is facts)
                Indeed. Our group is 100% volunteer. 100% of everything donated goes out to the people who need it. The books are wide open for the entire community to see at any time. And we carefully choose the "face" of the group (the one who deals with the people in need). The first person chosen was chosen because of their popularity - but it quickly became clear that their tendency to gossip was a serious problem.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  This bill, from the Democrats, is a travesty. $3T more borrowed from our grandchildren and their children to make things more comfortable for us in a time of struggle. I hope there are enough politicians to stand against this kind of waste and for a return to fiscal responsibility - but I suspect there are not. In a time of crisis, in a culture of entitlement, this has about as much chance of failing completely as the so-called "Patriot Act" did at a time when we were attacked.

                  There are times when I wonder when/if common sense will ever return to this country.
                  wow, we agree on something!

                  Yeah, they seem to think they can just keep printing money and we won't have to face the consequences. And it won't even be our grandchildren who face the consequences, it will be us. Inflation will go through the roof, businesses will shut down permanently if we stay shut down, people will be unemployed permanently. We will enter a new Great Depression.

                  Insane!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

                    In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.
                    how can you raise taxes when the economy is shut down? Businesses can't pay taxes if they are closed and people can't pay them if they are unemployed.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I'm tired of a "step two" that never materializes.
                      EGGzackly -- it's always "you do this, then we'll do that" and "that" never happens.

                      Everyone is happy when the spending happens -
                      Not ME! Because I know it's most likely paying WAY too much, and lining the wrong pockets.

                      and then they turn as yellow as Homer's backside when the time comes to adjust the income to pay the bills.
                      I don't mind being taxed for money that is necessary with accountability.

                      The source of the funding should be stipulated in any spending bill - and a balanced budget should be a requirement at all times except a time of crisis and a time of war. Even then - the spending should have an attached plan for payment.
                      Nobody even PRETENDS to talk about that anymore!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        Indeed. Our group is 100% volunteer. 100% of everything donated goes out to the people who need it.
                        We have several paid staff just for the continuity and expertise (not necessarily in that order) but mostly a big army of volunteers, coordinating with other volunteer groups, both civic and faith-based.

                        The books are wide open for the entire community to see at any time. And we carefully choose the "face" of the group (the one who deals with the people in need). The first person chosen was chosen because of their popularity - but it quickly became clear that their tendency to gossip was a serious problem.
                        When I talk about "helping people" in Church, I always point out that there are those out there who live to scam, and no matter how careful you are, you WILL get scammed. HOWEVER, I'd rather accidentally help somebody who doesn't need it than NOT help somebody who was legitimately in need.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          If people see that money is being managed well - there are no extravagant "CEO" salaries or huge corporate offices - they're far more likely to contribute...
                          I heard a talk by a guy who argued that it's a hindrance to non-profits to not be able to pay their CEO's a competitive salary. Some non-profits are as big as a major for-profit company, yet they're expected to pay CEOs a cut-rate salary which often results in them not being able to hire the best person for the job.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I heard a talk by a guy who argued that it's a hindrance to non-profits to not be able to pay their CEO's a competitive salary. Some non-profits are as big as a major for-profit company, yet they're expected to pay CEOs a cut-rate salary which often results in them not being able to hire the best person for the job.
                            Yeah, we have three main "paid staff", and their salaries are competitive, but not exorbitant - occasionally we'll have somebody complain about how much we pay them, and we'll ask "would YOU do that job for that salary?" That pretty much shuts them down.

                            On a national level, of course, they try to go with somebody with big name recognition for the fund raising aspect.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              ...but mostly a big army of volunteers...
                              We actually DO pay people like cooks, because we run a restaurant which is part of the income stream, but it's part of the job training part - we hire people, train them to cook or whatever, then allow them to be hired out by other community businesses. It's worked really well.

                              People who eat at the restaurant know that they're contributing to the cause, and are generally very generous tippers, as well.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                And it won't even be our grandchildren who face the consequences, it will be us. Inflation will go through the roof, businesses will shut down permanently if we stay shut down, people will be unemployed permanently. We will enter a new Great Depression.
                                I suspect that's the goal. As far as the Democrats are concerned, no price is too high for us (not them) to pay if they think it will hurt Trump's chances in the next election.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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