Will COVID 19 return?

[Cow Poke]

Not all atheist, are dishonest, evil, or liars.

Feel better now?

So, that's TWO of us! Which certainly negates "not one".

[Cow Poke]

The "atheists = evil" mindset has a long history. I doubt that objecting to it is going to change it any time soon.

I most certainly object to it. But all CRETANS ARE liars, brutish and lazy gluttons. The Good Book sayeth so*.

However, I do find myself in some amount of sympathy with CP's observation. I find that too many atheists are more anti-theists than a-theists. They take a condescending, hostile, dismissive position towards Christianity (or any other theism).

Roy, for example, should realize I've never had a battle with him, or seen him as hostile - but I think it's so easy to group everybody together and do that giganticus brushish thing.

Our position is challenging enough as is, without adding that to the mix. When you think about it from their position, we hold a belief that essentially says the one thing they hold most dear in their lives is unreal - a kind of "figment of their imagination." If your entire identity is caught up in one thing and someone comes along and says, "umm...hey bud...that doesn't actually exist," I suspect your response would instantly be defensive. If they piled on the derision and condescension that so many atheists posting here regularly pile on, that can only magnify the effect.

I'm only thinking of a few who seem to be a little overboard on the anti-Christian bandwagon.

IMO, a lot of atheists need to do a little soul (pun intended) searching. Is it really necessary to be so derisive? Is it possible to take a higher road?

ETA: I have to admit to some wry amusement in noting that a new thread was started in Christianity 201 asking "can there be an honest atheist?" I guess the "our beliefs are fundamentally insulting to them" thing swings both ways. When it is a question if people who believe differently than you can even be honest, the ground is set for a self-perpetuating denial of any reality but the one you have settled on. After all, anyone disagreeing is simply being "dishonest." That actually fits in with, and goes a long way to explaining, the continual stream of "disingenuity" and "dishonest" and "hypocrite" assertions made by many of the respondents.

And I meant what I said earlier.


*Actually, Paul is quoting somebody else in Titus 1:12

[Roy]

So, that's TWO of us! Which certainly negates "not one".

Neither of you disagreed when or where the claim was made.

[carpedm9587]

I most certainly object to it. But all CRETANS ARE liars, brutish and lazy gluttons. The Good Book sayeth so*.

Roy, for example, should realize I've never had a battle with him, or seen him as hostile - but I think it's so easy to group everybody together and do that giganticus brushish thing.

I'm only thinking of a few who seem to be a little overboard on the anti-Christian bandwagon.

And I meant what I said earlier.

*Actually, Paul is quoting somebody else in Titus 1:12

Just to be clear, I have no real issue with Christian view that "all are sinful and have fallen short." It's not my view - but it at least puts everyone on a level playing field. I have to admit that I do have an issue with the "look down my nose at the heathen, lying, evil, atheist," POV. There is an arrogance about it that does not seem consistent with the character of Jesus of Nazareth as portrayed in the NT. Beyond that, it's just plain arrogant.

It is not my impression that you have that POV. I cannot say the same for all here.

[RumTumTugger]

So, that's TWO of us! Which certainly negates "not one".

Make that 3 of us

[Cow Poke]

Just to be clear, I have no real issue with Christian view that "all are sinful and have fallen short."

Picking nit, it's "all have sinned", not "all are sinful".

It's not my view - but it at least puts everyone on a level playing field. I have to admit that I do have an issue with the "look down my nose at the heathen, lying, evil, atheist," POV.

Absolutely agree. There are a number of atheists here with whom I have had no battles.

There is an arrogance about it that does not seem consistent with the character of Jesus of Nazareth as portrayed in the NT. Beyond that, it's just plain arrogant.

It is not my impression that you have that POV. I cannot say the same for all here.

I think what happens here is that we have a few very 'anti-Christian bigot' types who, unfortunately, become the face of atheists in general, which is not fair.

[carpedm9587]

Picking nit, it's "all have sinned", not "all are sinful".

Absolutely agree. There are a number of atheists here with whom I have had no battles.

I think what happens here is that we have a few very 'anti-Christian bigot' types who, unfortunately, become the face of atheists in general, which is not fair.

A significant percentage of the time, the arguments I make and points of view I express are warped to look/sound like a common liberal/atheist position, and then responded to as if I had made that argument. When I try to correct the perception, I get told I'm "claiming I didn't say what I actually said." I've learned to simply stop trying with those who feel a need to argue that way. I'll correct a misconception once, maybe twice, and then move on. If someone feels a need to insist they know better than I what I said/meant, so be it.

And while it is true that my "last word to you" is occasionally violated, I think you'll find, if you stop and pay attention, that it has been observed far more than it has not been observed in the past few months. Unfortunately, first impressions are extremely difficult to reverse and, when I first started using it, it was more violated than observed. Such is life.

[Cow Poke]

A significant percentage of the time, the arguments I make and points of view I express are warped to look/sound like a common liberal/atheist position, and then responded to as if I had made that argument. When I try to correct the perception, I get told I'm "claiming I didn't say what I actually said." I've learned to simply stop trying with those who feel a need to argue that way. I'll correct a misconception once, maybe twice, and then move on. If someone feels a need to insist they know better than I what I said/meant, so be it.

And while it is true that my "last word to you" is occasionally violated, I think you'll find, if you stop and pay attention, that it has been observed far more than it has not been observed in the past few months. Unfortunately, first impressions are extremely difficult to reverse and, when I first started using it, it was more violated than observed. Such is life.

Once again, I apologize. I'm only teasing about the "last word" thing, and didn't...

[lilpixieofterror]

Neither of you disagreed when or where the claim was made.

[carpedm9587]

Once again, I apologize. I'm only teasing about the "last word" thing, and didn't...

No need to re-apologize, CP. I "heard" you and all is fine. I wasn't posting in an accusatory fashion, and my skin is a bit thicker than you think. I think the phrase "I find that offensive" was perhaps a bit misleading in our previous posts. Finding something offensive doesn't mean, to me, that I am personally offended and buckling under the weight of insult. It just means I think something said was unnecessarily rude. I know you are a minister/pastor and was frankly surprised by your response. You explanation made sense, and we're good.

I'd hate to think I can't give you an occasional going forward. After all, you are wrong far more often than I am...

[Cow Poke]

No need to re-apologize, CP. I "heard" you and all is fine. I wasn't posting in an accusatory fashion, and my skin is a bit thicker than you think. I think the phrase "I find that offensive" was perhaps a bit misleading in our previous posts. Finding something offensive doesn't mean, to me, that I am personally offended and buckling under the weight of insult. It just means I think something said was unnecessarily rude. I know you are a minister/pastor and was frankly surprised by your response. You explanation made sense, and we're good.

I'd hate to think I can't give you an occasional going forward.

After all, you are wrong far more often than I am...

You're an atheist, so you're automatically wrong.

[carpedm9587]

You're an atheist, so you're automatically wrong.

So many possible responses....so little time.

[Sparko]

Anti-Christian bigots?

You're on a forum where when some-one says all atheists must be dishonest, not one Christian disagrees.

Well, to be honest (pun intended) I said that nobody is honest. We all lie from time to time, even Christians. There was one perfectly honest man and we killed him.

[Roy]

Well, to be honest (pun intended) I said that nobody is honest. We all lie from time to time, even Christians. There was one perfectly honest man and we killed him.

Yeah, CP mentioned him.

[MaxVel]

Is this thread now about CP (again)?