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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    People aren't doing this to save themselves alone, they're doing it because they value the lives of others as well.
    It's interesting to see how little people in the US value the lives of others, compared to what I'm used to in my country. It's quite a difference in culture.

    One of my evangelical friends here in New Zealand commented to me years ago that he thought right-wingers in the US valued human life a lot less than people in the rest of the Western world, and that this explained their positions on quite a lot of things (Death penalty, guns, war, healthcare, poverty etc).
    Last edited by Starlight; 05-20-2020, 02:15 AM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      We are overvaluing mere survival and undervaluing "living."
      Norrin - I am sheltering in place - I am wearing a mask - I am social distancing - I am unemployed - and I am certainly living. I exercise each day. I go for walks with my wife. I help my neighbors. I watch a bit of TV. I'm reading more than before. I'm fixing things in my house and planting my gardens. My life did not end because a pandemic caused me to change my daily habits.

      You have to survive in order to live. And "living" is a choice you make after you have survived.

      What I am seeing is this (which I posted before):

      Government to 1940's military: We have enemies. We need you to go to that beach and push the enemy back. Thousands of you will die.
      1940's military to Government: We understand. We'll do it!

      Government to 2020 citizens: There's a pandemic. We need you to practice social distancing, wear a mask, avoid gathering more than 10, and shelter in place except for urgent needs to minimize loss of life.
      2020 citizens to Government: How DARE you! You are turning this country into a dictatorship!

      Yeah...makes a lot of sense to me...
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        It's interesting to see how little people in the US value the lives of others, compared to what I'm used to in my country. It's quite a difference in culture.

        One of my evangelical friends here in New Zealand commented to me years ago that he thought right-wingers in the US valued human life a lot less than people in the rest of the Western world, and that this explained their positions on quite a lot of things (Death penalty, guns, war, healthcare, poverty etc).
        One of my conservative friends was just asking me why people in New Zealand think they are the only ones who value life properly. I told him their water swirls in reverse.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Government to 2020 citizens: There's a pandemic. We need you to practice social distancing, wear a mask, avoid gathering more than 10, and shelter in place except for urgent needs to minimize loss of life.
          2020 citizens to Government: How DARE you! You are turning this country into a dictatorship!
          To some extent I could have understood this behavior if it had happened under Obama's tenure, back when the right was doing their tongue in cheek game of pretending Obama was a dictator while winking at their fellows (with a few of the dumber ones, including some on this site, drinking the Kool-Aid of course)...

          ...but Trump is a Republican. (And plenty of the states taking reasonable lockdown measures are governed by Republicans) There's some serious double-think of "dictatorship! bad!"... "Trump! good!" happening.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            To some extent I could have understood this behavior if it had happened under Obama's tenure, back when the right was doing their tongue in cheek game of pretending Obama was a dictator while winking at their fellows (with a few of the dumber ones, including some on this site, drinking the Kool-Aid of course)...

            ...but Trump is a Republican. (And plenty of the states taking reasonable lockdown measures are governed by Republicans) There's some serious double-think of "dictatorship! bad!"... "Trump! good!" happening.
            Donald "Double Think" Trump. It's in his initials. It's in his Genes. And it is a prerequisite for being able to support him.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Norrin - I am sheltering in place - I am wearing a mask - I am social distancing - I am unemployed - and I am certainly living. I exercise each day. I go for walks with my wife. I help my neighbors. I watch a bit of TV. I'm reading more than before. I'm fixing things in my house and planting my gardens. My life did not end because a pandemic caused me to change my daily habits.

              You have to survive in order to live. And "living" is a choice you make after you have survived.

              What I am seeing is this (which I posted before):

              Government to 1940's military: We have enemies. We need you to go to that beach and push the enemy back. Thousands of you will die.
              1940's military to Government: We understand. We'll do it!

              Government to 2020 citizens: There's a pandemic. We need you to practice social distancing, wear a mask, avoid gathering more than 10, and shelter in place except for urgent needs to minimize loss of life.
              2020 citizens to Government: How DARE you! You are turning this country into a dictatorship!

              Yeah...makes a lot of sense to me...
              That was the "Greatest Generation". This is ... not that (literally).
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                It means you should be a little more careful before throwing around "reading is hard" and such extreme snark towards those who are clearly your intellectual betters. RWNJs are just so unfathomably lazy and want all the credibility and accolades for hard intellectual work but are totally unwilling to lift a finger to accomplish those things.

                Do better and be more humble.
                Sayeth the person that tucks his tail between his legs and runs away when proved wrong. At least I have the humility and intellect to admit to being wrong, you?
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  Sayeth the person that tucks his tail between his legs and runs away when proved wrong. At least I have the humility and intellect to admit to being wrong, you?
                  Point me to where I have done this and I will gladly respond to any message I missed.

                  And the larger issue I take is not you making a mistake (you're an RWNJ, it's what your kind does), it's the level of contempt and derision you display. You somehow think we're on similar intellectual footing when we're *not* and it's *not close*. Knock it off and learn something.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    It means you should be a little more careful before throwing around "reading is hard" and such extreme snark towards those who are clearly your intellectual betters. RWNJs are just so unfathomably lazy and want all the credibility and accolades for hard intellectual work but are totally unwilling to lift a finger to accomplish those things.

                    Do better and be more humble.
                    Wow. Arrogantly telling someone you are their intellectual better and then telling THEM to be more humble...
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      Wow. Arrogantly telling someone you are their intellectual better and then telling THEM to be more humble...
                      That's right. As I've said to you in the past, one rule from the BK Warren and Robert Turkel days was that you are allowed to respond in kind. LPoE seems to think that rudeness and hostility is a virtue so that's how I'm speaking to her. If she cares to pump the brakes on her contempt I'll be glad to do so as well.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                        That's right. As I've said to you in the past, one rule from the BK Warren and Robert Turkel days was that you are allowed to respond in kind. LPoE seems to think that rudeness and hostility is a virtue so that's how I'm speaking to her. If she cares to pump the brakes on her contempt I'll be glad to do so as well.
                        So, your irony was unintended then?
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          It's interesting to see how little people in the US value the lives of others, compared to what I'm used to in my country. It's quite a difference in culture.

                          One of my evangelical friends here in New Zealand commented to me years ago that he thought right-wingers in the US valued human life a lot less than people in the rest of the Western world, and that this explained their positions on quite a lot of things (Death penalty, guns, war, healthcare, poverty etc).
                          I've been saying for a while now that the US is in the middle of a culture war, and has been for a few decades. Ideas/values are supported or opposed not based on the ideas/values themselves, but who they came from.

                          This helps explain why the people who support the proliferation of firearms are the same who claim to value the lives of the unborn. To be sure, there must be some corresponding "disconnect" on the left side of the fence here, but I just can't think of an example at the moment...
                          Last edited by Whateverman; 05-20-2020, 01:04 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            So, your irony was unintended then?
                            I don't think you know what irony means. How was my comment "ironic"?

                            Comment


                            • Trump tries his hand at extortion, against Michigan. Trump and the Repubs know that they only win elections these days if they suppress the vote or work a bit of Gerrymandering magic.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                                That's right. As I've said to you in the past, one rule from the BK Warren and Robert Turkel days was that you are allowed to respond in kind. LPoE seems to think that rudeness and hostility is a virtue so that's how I'm speaking to her. If she cares to pump the brakes on her contempt I'll be glad to do so as well.
                                Or...alternatively...you can take the high road.

                                The behavior of others should not be the basis for your decision on how YOU want to behave. When you make it so, you give them control over who and what you are. "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" is a philosophy that leaves the whole world blind and gumming their food.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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