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Sanders: Communism Light...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post


    Thanks for confirming my POV that you and the dems are a pack of hypocritical nutjobs.
    Simple ad hom's do not an argument make. It's more of an admittance that you have no argument to make, or in other words a concession.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      It boggles the mind that a rumor about Trump colluding with Russia (which isn't even communist any more) has the Democrats trying to impeach him
      No. Trump was impeached because attempted to pressure the president of Ukraine to interfere in the US presidential election

      , yet Sanders openly embraces SOVIET Russia and communism and they consider it a "good thing"
      No he's not Communist, he's a Democratic Socialist. Bernie himself rebuked Bloomberg when the latter called him Communist:

      https://nypost.com/2020/02/19/bloomb...cratic-debate/
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Polling with regards to the popularity of US Senators in their home states tends to consistently report Bernie Sanders as the most-popular of the 100 US Senators.

        e.g. Morning Consult's rankings of Senators by popularity. Bernie is currently number 1 in that list with a +36% approval minus disapproval rating.

        The youtuber you mention seems to be an outlier.
        He's a libertarian in a nanny state, so yeah, a minority.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          No. Trump was impeached because attempted to pressure the president of Ukraine to interfere in the US presidential election
          They have been trying to impeach him for 3 years. When they couldn't prove any Russian Collusion™ the went on to something else.


          No he's not Communist, he's a Democratic Socialist. Bernie himself rebuked Bloomberg when the latter called him Communist:

          https://nypost.com/2020/02/19/bloomb...cratic-debate/
          I didn't say he was a communist (but he is) - I said he openly embraced Soviet Russia and communism.

          Comment


          • #35
            “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Churchill
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #36
              sovs.jpg

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Churchill
                "Democratic socialism is a philosophy of successful governance, the creed of wisdom, and the gospel of care, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of happiness." JimL

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  They have been trying to impeach him for 3 years.
                  And well they should have.

                  When they couldn't prove any Russian Collusion™ the went on to something else.
                  Oh they proved it all right, but the jury was biased, and when he realized he could get away with it, he went right back at it.

                  I didn't say he was a communist (but he is) - I said he openly embraced Soviet Russia and communism.
                  No he isn't, and no he didn't. Get a grip.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    They have been trying to impeach him for 3 years. When they couldn't prove any Russian Collusion™ the went on to something else.
                    "They" did impeach him and for good reason.

                    And Mueller made clear that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. Further: "The U.S. Senate’s Select Committee on Intelligence released Volume 1 of its report on Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference in the 2016 U.S. Election is as dark as it gets. The report summarily states that “the Russian government directed extensive activity, beginning in at least 2014 and carrying into at least 2017, against U.S. election infrastructure at the state and local level.”

                    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevean.../#7be346b01ff2

                    I didn't say he was a communist (but he is) - I said he openly embraced Soviet Russia and communism.
                    He is a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist - a position embraced by many countries of the Free World, including my own Australia with it's universal health care, subsidized education and generous welfare provisions.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Churchill
                      And how would you describe capitalism?

                      Marx wrote his philosophy in the nineteenth century, seeing the arc of capitalism over the previous century. And many others saw the inherent weaknesses of capitalism as a system. Even the weakness of a capitalist system within a democratic political system.

                      Failure, ignorance, envy, and misery are not just socialist problems, many looked at capitalism and saw all those same things.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        And how would you describe capitalism?
                        The free exchange of goods.

                        Marx wrote his philosophy in the nineteenth century, seeing the arc of capitalism over the previous century. And many others saw the inherent weaknesses of capitalism as a system. Even the weakness of a capitalist system within a democratic political system.
                        Do you know of any other system that has lifted more people out of poverty? Look at Asia over the last 20 years.


                        Failure, ignorance, envy, and misery are not just socialist problems, many looked at capitalism and saw all those same things.
                        Free markets are a-moral. Socialism on the other hand must covet what others have earned.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          The free exchange of goods.

                          Do you know of any other system that has lifted more people out of poverty? Look at Asia over the last 20 years.
                          Yes, democratic socialism, and that's the point. Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is not distinct from democratic socialism, they exist together as parts of one and the same system.



                          Free markets are a-moral. Socialism on the other hand must covet what others have earned.
                          If complete free market capitalism is a-moral then so too are the people that support that economic system a-moral.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Yes, democratic socialism, and that's the point. Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is not distinct from democratic socialism, they exist together as parts of one and the same system.




                            If complete free market capitalism is a-moral then so too are the people that support that economic system a-moral.
                            I will write it again: Capitalism .... is not distinct from democratic socialism. Which also means democratic socialism is compatible with capitalism.

                            A-moral or immoral? I think, following the argument of Reinhold Niebuhr in Moral man, Immoral Society that collectively, the group can be immoral while the members, individually, are moral. This view also aligns with the Christian concept of the fallen nature of man (original sin). (I doubt you accept that, but Christians might accept an original sin argument)

                            I am capitalist, but do not see the system as amoral, rather fear its inherent immorality. At each moment, we, as a society must be aware of the pitfalls of the free market. One good example is whether we should allow the free market to work within the banking system. I think it is the restrictive and anti- lassez faire regulation which keeps us from falling into a financial abyss. And I don't think that view is pessimistic, rather I am an optimist on the American economy.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Yes, democratic socialism, and that's the point. Capitalism and the free exchange of goods is not distinct from democratic socialism, they exist together as parts of one and the same system.

                              If complete free market capitalism is a-moral then so too are the people that support that economic system a-moral.
                              Jim amoral is not immoral, it means:

                              not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.

                              I sell you my cow, and as long as I do not cheat you, there is nothing moral about the transaction. Democratic socialism is immoral however if you use the force of law to take what I earned and give it to another who has not earned it.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                I will write it again: Capitalism .... is not distinct from democratic socialism. Which also means democratic socialism is compatible with capitalism.

                                A-moral or immoral? I think, following the argument of Reinhold Niebuhr in Moral man, Immoral Society that collectively, the group can be immoral while the members, individually, are moral. This view also aligns with the Christian concept of the fallen nature of man (original sin). (I doubt you accept that, but Christians might accept an original sin argument)
                                I agree, people can be both supporters of complete capitalism and still be moral, but only if they're ignorant as to what that means to the lives many people. Good and evil, the fallen nature of man, in my opinion, is just a matter our ignorance.
                                I am capitalist, but do not see the system as amoral, rather fear its inherent immorality. At each moment, we, as a society must be aware of the pitfalls of the free market. One good example is whether we should allow the free market to work within the banking system. I think it is the restrictive and anti- lassez faire regulation which keeps us from falling into a financial abyss. And I don't think that view is pessimistic, rather I am an optimist on the American economy.
                                If what you mean is that the free market, if it is to be moral, must needs be regulated, then I agree.

                                Comment

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