Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSo, you at least admit then that moral rules of behavior would exist, that they would, by man, be codified into law, even if they did not come from an objectively existing source? Correct?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, the bigotted, racist, Hitler did, and he was wrong. He may have had the right to do so, the power to do so, but having the right and the power to do so, isn't what determines if it was in the best interests of the community.
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Then JimL's constant appeal to "what is best for society" is just meaningless nonsense. He can't have it both ways.
Why wasn't it moral Tassman? Because your modern personal moral view says it isn't? They would see you as immoral for supporting homosexuality. Which of you is actually right? If there is no objective morality then neither of you is correct. You keep claiming morals are not objective, then turning around and arguing as if they were. Make up your mind and be consistent.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThen JimL's constant appeal to "what is best for society" is just meaningless nonsense.
Why wasn't it moral Tassman? Because your modern personal moral view says it isn't?
They would see you as immoral for supporting homosexuality.
Which of you is actually right?If there is no objective morality then neither of you is correct. You keep claiming morals are not objective, then turning around and arguing as if they were. Make up your mind and be consistent.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNot at all. He means (as do I) at a given point of time in history.
No, because my reflects the current values of the society to which I belong.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo what you mean is what a society PREFERS at any point in time. If there is no objective good or bad, then there can be no "best" - just preferences.Except you already have shown that your personal view can easily differ from your society's view.
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Then you have no leg to stand on to complain about any other culture's morality.
It can, just as your
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Originally posted by sparko View Postthen you have no leg to stand on to complain about any other culture's morality.
Well, i can because i believe morality is objective and i align myself with god, the source of that morality, and he as jesus said to forgive. And because you have no clueabout what the ot law was even about or what it says, or who it was given to. Or even what the difference is between something being immoral and the punishment for it. Homosexuality is still immoral, we just don't stone them any more. Same moral....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThen you have no leg to stand on to complain about any other culture's morality.
Well, I can because I believe morality is objective and I align myself with God, the source of that morality, and he as Jesus said to forgive.Homosexuality is still immoral, we just don't stone them any more. Same moral.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe can if their "objective morality" impinges on our culture as per say, 9/11.
The OT society saw the penalties established by the law as maxima. In the ordinary course, then as now, maximum penalty was reserved for worst cases.
God's current "clear injunction" as you put it has nothing to do with OT law. Under the NT law, the maximum penalty for any offence is excommunication, or in secular terms, exile - no warrant for the death penalty, however enacted, is granted by the New Testament. War is arguably a different matter, but I'm not satisfied that a conclusive finding, whether pro or con, can be derived.
The Muslim's god, as declared by their own sacred texts, has very little in common with the Christian and Jewish god. There are many who see a close correlation between the Muslim god and Suen/Nanna.
Such penalties as stoning becoming unacceptable in our societies arises from Christian precepts, atheist claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Christians still argue against enacting the death penalty.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe can if their "objective morality" impinges on our
God didn't tell us to stone anyone. In fact, Jesus said not to (re: woman who was going to be stoned) - that was a punishment given in the OT to a specific group at a specific time. It was just a civil law under the old covenant. Jesus gave us a new covenant. The moral law that homosexual behavior is a sin, still stands. Also I have no control over how my government punishes or doesn't punish homosexuals and as a citizen I have no right to impose any punishment myself, regardless of what I think it should or should not be.
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It can't have been a civil law - there was no such thing in Israel before the second temple period ... if it existed even then.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt can't have been a civil law - there was no such thing in Israel before the second temple period ... if it existed even then.
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