Is The Bible Literally True?

[Same Hakeem]

Again Jeremiah 22:30 does not refute the fact Jesus was not a Jew. As stated in previous post Jesus was adopted by Joseph legally not biologically so the curse does not effect him at all. In fact Haggai 2:23 speaks of Zerubbabel who was his grandson and the rabbis speak of his repentance

Sanhedrin 37b-38a

R. Johanan said: "Exile atones for everything, for it is written, Thus saith the Lord, write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days, for no man of his seed shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. Whereas after he [the king] was exiled, it is written, And the sons of Jechoniah, -- the same is Assir -- Shealtiel his son etc.(1) [He was called] Assir, because his mother conceived him in prison. Shealtiel, because God did not plant him in the way that others are planted. We know by tradition that a woman cannot conceive in a standing position. [yet she] did conceive standing. Another interpretation: Shealtiel, because God obtained [of the Heavenly court] absolution from His oath."(2)

Thanks. But you missed my point here. According to Jer. 22:30, none of sons of Coniah sons will sit on the throne of David. But Jesus was from Coniah according Matthew 1:11.

[JonathanL]

"by their fathers' houses"

"by their fathers' houses" by itself does not imply lineage can never be traced through the mother.

[Same Hakeem]

"by their fathers' houses" by itself does not imply lineage can never be traced through the mother.

Really? So by fathers' houses can mean by mothers' houses?

[JonathanL]

Really? So by fathers' houses can mean by mothers' houses?

The passage you cited only says that they registered themselves by their father's houses, it doesn't say that lineage could never be traced through the mother's house. And we know for a fact that lineage can be traced through the mother in specific circumstances, because the book of Numbers specifically states:

Scripture Verse: Numbers 27:1-11 ESV

Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad the son of Hepher, son of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, from the clans of Manasseh the son of Joseph. The names of his daughters were: Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. 2 And they stood before Moses and before Eleazar the priest and before the chiefs and all the congregation, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying, 3 Why should the name of our father be taken away from his clan because he had no son? Give to us a possession among our father's brothers.

5 Moses brought their case before the Lord. 6 And the Lord said to Moses, 7 You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father's brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 And you shall speak to the people of Israel, saying, 9 And if he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 And if he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 11 And if his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to the nearest kinsman of his clan, and he shall possess it.

© Copyright Original Source

[ReformedApologist]

Thanks. But you missed my point here. According to Jer. 22:30, none of sons of Coniah sons will sit on the throne of David. But Jesus was from Coniah according Matthew 1:11.

You do realize some prophecies are conditional? or are you stupid and just being deceptive. You have already been caught lying saying its impossible to Jewish from the side of the mother in accordance with Leviticus 24:10. So you were called out on that. Btw when you going to answer Sparko's question? you completely evaded that.

[Same Hakeem]

You do realize some prophecies are conditional? or are you stupid and just being deceptive. You have already been caught lying saying its impossible to Jewish from the side of the mother in accordance with Leviticus 24:10. So you were called out on that. Btw when you going to answer Sparko's question? you completely evaded that.

[Same Hakeem]

The passage you cited only says that they registered themselves by their father's houses, it doesn't say that lineage could never be traced through the mother's house. And we know for a fact that lineage can be traced through the mother in specific circumstances, because the book of Numbers specifically states:

Scripture Verse: Numbers 27:1-11 ESV

Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad the son of Hepher, son of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, from the clans of Manasseh the son of Joseph. The names of his daughters were: Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. 2 And they stood before Moses and before Eleazar the priest and before the chiefs and all the congregation, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying, 3 Why should the name of our father be taken away from his clan because he had no son? Give to us a possession among our father's brothers.

5 Moses brought their case before the Lord. 6 And the Lord said to Moses, 7 You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father's brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 And you shall speak to the people of Israel, saying, 9 And if he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 And if he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 11 And if his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to the nearest kinsman of his clan, and he shall possess it.

© Copyright Original Source

Thanks for sharing such valuable information. How is Mary traced to David?

[tabibito]

Prophecy of scripture is inspired of God. All scripture inspired of God is useful for teaching, for reproof, for training in righteousness.
Matthew's genealogy may (perhaps) have been correct in the original writing - the copies that we have provide a demonstrably erroneous descendancy - but not in the way that you claim.
Moreover - as you yourself have rightly pointed out - Jesus was not Joseph's biological descendant. So Joseph's descendancy from Jeconiah is wholly irrelevant anyway.

[Sparko]

Um you realize that in Islam, Jesus is the Messiah, right? And the Messiah has to be a descendant of David, so Islam believes that Jesus is the descendant of David. And Islam believes in the virgin birth, so Joseph is not Jesus' father in Islam either.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I affirm the virgin birth!

[ReformedApologist]

The Virgin Birth also answers the reverse of the curse. Jesus was not literally born of Jeconiah seed. Since Jesus was born of a women (Galatians 4:4; Isaiah 7:14), and without sin (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1st Peter 2:22; 1st John 3:5). The curse does not effect him.

[Same Hakeem]

Prophecy of scripture is inspired of God. All scripture inspired of God is useful for teaching, for reproof, for training in righteousness.
Matthew's genealogy may (perhaps) have been correct in the original writing - the copies that we have provide a demonstrably erroneous descendancy - but not in the way that you claim.
Moreover - as you yourself have rightly pointed out - Jesus was not Joseph's biological descendant. So Joseph's descendancy from Jeconiah is wholly irrelevant anyway.

However, Matthew in 1:16 traces Jesus to David namely through Joseph. But the reality is that Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus because Jesus was born miraculously without father; therefore, Jesus cannot be traced to David as claimed by Matthew 1:1.

The above referred to verses are as follows;

Matthew 1:1 New Living Translation (NLT)
The Ancestors of Jesus the Messiah
1 This is a record of the ancestors of Jesus the Messiah, a descendant of David and of Abraham:

Matthew 1:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
16 Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.
Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is called the Messiah.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=NLT

[Same Hakeem]

The Virgin Birth also answers the reverse of the curse. Jesus was not literally born of Jeconiah seed. Since Jesus was born of a women (Galatians 4:4; Isaiah 7:14), and without sin (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1st Peter 2:22; 1st John 3:5). The curse does not effect him.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=NKJV

[Sparko]

Funny how you keep ignoring my posts Hakeem.


In Islam, Jesus is the Messiah. And the Messiah has to be a descendant of David, so Islam believes that Jesus is the descendant of David. And Islam believes in the virgin birth, so Joseph is not Jesus' father in Islam either.

[ReformedApologist]

Your own Quran connects Jesus to David and Mary:

Cursed were those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and [habitually] transgressed.-Surah 5:78