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Epstein Found Dead In Cell...

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  • Originally posted by seanD View Post
    I'm not looking for a fight, I was just asking a legit question. You expressed surprise that he was silent about the autopsy in one post, but then you implied he was lying just so he wouldn't have to talk about the autopsy in another. It seemed like you were contradicting yourself.
    No, I did not imply he was lying. You obviously inferred that, but my concern was that I'd like to see the gag order myself, to see what it covered. A gag order, as I suggested, is a big deal, and is usually pretty specific in what it covers. It could actually yield some answers.

    You're too much, man
    Let me know when you want to have a civil discussion.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seanD View Post
      Guess this pretty much answers my question...

      Attorneys Martin Weinberg, Reid Weingarten and Michael Miller said in a statement that it is "indisputable that the authorities violated their own protocols" at the federal lockup.

      They say they'll conduct their own probe and get court help, if necessary, to see "pivotal videos."
      I would imagine video footage is pretty much the be-all/end-all proof of homicide or not (of course, others might dispute that since I don't have any personal experience and am basing this just on common sense), so if there's any indication of tampering or denial of this footage, the attorneys will make a public stink about it.

      I also found this interesting...

      A Justice Department official says people including jail staff members believed to have information pertinent to the probe into financier Jeffrey Epstein's death are not cooperating with investigators.

      The official says the people have not yet been interviewed by the FBI and that their lack of cooperation is a challenge as investigators works to try to determine the full circumstances surrounding Epstein's suicide.

      The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

      The official says the FBI has repeatedly sought interviews with some staff members but those interviews are being delayed by union representatives.

      And another detail I found interesting, contrary to what at least I was led to believe before, the guards weren't necessarily being "overworked" in the sense that they were so understaffed that they were forced to work hours they didn't want to...

      Fox News has also learned that 20 of 21 prison staff posts were filled between the hours of 4 p.m. and 12 a.m. on Friday, Aug. 9, the day before Epstein was found. Of those prison workers, six of them were working voluntary overtime. Between 12 a.m. and 8 a.m. on Saturday, Aug. 10, 18 of 19 staff posts were filled. Of those 18 staffers, 10 were working overtime and all but one of those were doing so voluntarily.
      Of course, there's always a possibility Fox News is reporting false facts to stir up controversy to sell the article

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Of course, there's always a possibility Fox News is reporting false facts to stir up controversy to sell the article
        I don't rely on Fox for my news.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seanD View Post
          The post you responded to earlier...
          Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't think you were being literal about that part. If we're talking about a scenario in which money changes hands to exploit a situation to intentionally cause the death of another person, we're still talking a homicide. That is possible even if he killed himself, however I don't imagine that being very likely for the simple reason that if a suspect is trying to orchestrate a real suicide, the chances of success are low and your mileage will very dramatically. What's the point in a criminal conspiracy with a 15% (just picking a random number) chance of success? To be honest, if a person or organization has enough influence and access to confidently predict that, they probably won't be caught unless there's a whistle blower. The breadth of power necessary to have all the pieces in place that quickly is difficult to imagine.

          Another possibility is that the jail staff just did that on their own, hoping he'd kill himself. But without a personal investment in the outcome, why do it? If there was personal investment, they'll have to find the reward.
          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

          Comment


          • Anyone know if this might be the same Dr Baden that testified in the defense of O.J. Simpson?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              It's hard to say, there are so many strange details that don't add up. The coroner says suicide, but we don't have the evidence upon which the coroner made that determination. Why not?
              Because this information is not generally public domain, and law enforcement agencies aren't going to unnecessary spill the beans during an active investigation, no matter how curious or upset you are. Their job is the investigate the issue at hand, not coddle the public.
              "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Anyone know if this might be the same Dr Baden that testified in the defense of O.J. Simpson?
                Appears to be, yes. The Celebrity Pathologist - https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nati...?noredirect=on
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  Guess this pretty much answers my question...



                  I would imagine video footage is pretty much the be-all/end-all proof of homicide or not (of course, others might dispute that since I don't have any personal experience and am basing this just on common sense), so if there's any indication of tampering or denial of this footage, the attorneys will make a public stink about it.

                  I also found this interesting...
                  You find it interesting prison officials aren't cooperating? Why, exactly? They messed up and did something that exposes them to both criminal and civil liability. They FBI is coming at them anything they say is going to be used against them to justify criminal charges and/or result in them losing their life savings in a civil wrongful death suit. If they really did what has been reported, and they do want to talk to the FBI, they're going to want lawyers there. And everything I wrote applies to the non-conspirator version where Epstein killed himself while they were too lazy or tired to do their jobs properly. Their careers are already over, and they know it.
                  "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by myth View Post
                    Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't think you were being literal about that part. If we're talking about a scenario in which money changes hands to exploit a situation to intentionally cause the death of another person, we're still talking a homicide. That is possible even if he killed himself, however I don't imagine that being very likely for the simple reason that if a suspect is trying to orchestrate a real suicide, the chances of success are low and your mileage will very dramatically. What's the point in a criminal conspiracy with a 15% (just picking a random number) chance of success? To be honest, if a person or organization has enough influence and access to confidently predict that, they probably won't be caught unless there's a whistle blower. The breadth of power necessary to have all the pieces in place that quickly is difficult to imagine.

                    Another possibility is that the jail staff just did that on their own, hoping he'd kill himself. But without a personal investment in the outcome, why do it? If there was personal investment, they'll have to find the reward.
                    I don't see the odds of suicide as a necessary deterrent at all in that scenario. If that didn't work, try it again, a third, fourth, fifth time, or try something else. The fact he tried it once before didn't seem to provide the necessary means of prevention to stop it from happening a second time, so why not a third? To me the problem with the scenario is assuming who's involved and who had knowledge that it was an intentional setup. The guards are a bit of an obstacle, but if we assume they didn't actually take a bribe (strange that they're being uncooperative with investigators) and really were asleep, it's very plausible. It seems highly unlikely they just happened to be sleeping when they were guarding the most notorious criminal they had on their watch. So it was likely a regular routine with them, which means a higher-up knew this to be the case, then all that was needed was to remove a couple other barriers that the higher-up had the authority to do -- take him off suicide watch and remove his cellmate (without notifying the DoJ), both of which happened. Perfectly plausible to me, much more so than someone having an actual hand in the killing.

                    ETA:

                    Originally posted by myth View Post
                    You find it interesting prison officials aren't cooperating? Why, exactly? They messed up and did something that exposes them to both criminal and civil liability. They FBI is coming at them anything they say is going to be used against them to justify criminal charges and/or result in them losing their life savings in a civil wrongful death suit. If they really did what has been reported, and they do want to talk to the FBI, they're going to want lawyers there. And everything I wrote applies to the non-conspirator version where Epstein killed himself while they were too lazy or tired to do their jobs properly. Their careers are already over, and they know it.
                    Isn't it pretty common knowledge at this point that they messed up and were falsifying records? How did it even become known they were sleeping and falsifying the logs? Seems like the jig is already up. Why be uncooperative at that point and just make yourself look even more culpable or suspicious?
                    Last edited by seanD; 08-18-2019, 03:20 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I think, for some of these conspiracy theories to flourish, there has to be a sense that a guest coroner is an adversary in an autopsy.

                      I have attended MANY autopsies where there was a guest coroner representing the family of the deceased, or somebody else who believed they had a vested interest in the results, and maybe didn't trust the system.

                      I have NEVER seen an atmosphere in autopsy where the medical examiners were in any way adversarial. They were interested in the truth, and often one of them would suggest checking out a particular theory or idea, and the person performing the autopsy would do everything to be transparent. There's an atmosphere of professionalism and cooperation. A sense of professional courtesy.

                      To my knowledge, Dr Baden has never expressed any concern about a lack of cooperation during the autopsy, and has not challenged the findings.
                      😳 You attended autopsies? *adds to list I didn't know pastors did*
                      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                      Comment


                      • Prince Andrew inside pedophile mansion NY

                        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...depravity.html
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Prince Andrew inside pedophile mansion NY

                          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...depravity.html
                          That's beautiful. Epstein was apparently recording everything, so I hope we get more revealing photos, a whole cache of photos and videos.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            That's beautiful. Epstein was apparently recording everything, so I hope we get more revealing photos, a whole cache of photos and videos.
                            I say it's dreadful. They were and are wrong, but this will lead to people being nasty and holier than thou. Very sad.
                            Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                              I say it's dreadful. They were and are wrong, but this will lead to people being nasty and holier than thou. Very sad.
                              It was dreadful for the victims for sure. It's beautiful because they won't get away it. Furthermore, this will hopefully bolster the civil case against them. Maybe they'll even repent once exposed, but that's on them.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                                😳 You attended autopsies? *adds to list I didn't know pastors did*
                                Laughing - never as a pastor.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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