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Mass Shooting El Paso...

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    They can't knife to death 26 people within less than a minute. Stop with the excuses, it only shows your true lack of empathy or concern.
    Stop helping - yes, it's a poor argument but she's not making excuses or showing a lack of empathy.

    Gun control proponents are the reason we can't have nice gun control laws...
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      It would still factor into a mentally ill person of the type that want to be mass murderers. Their goal is to kill as many possible so they are going to go where the likelihood of the people they are shooting at won't be shooting back. That is why they usually target churches and schools.
      I think they target churches and schools because that's where a lot of people are. I don't think it has much to do with whether or not the people there are armed. Heck, one of the worst mass shootings was on a military base (Ft. Hood).

      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      So I think places that are likely targets should have armed and trained security at the least. You might not like it, but it would be effective. Wringing our hands and piling on more gun regulations on people who aren't shooting up schools hasn't worked so far.
      We haven't tried my idea yet, which is banning all guns except for police and military, but that's unlikely to happen in a nation so devoted to weapons.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        It doesn't appear to be a fair comparison anyways. Apparently the idea that London trumped NYC in terms of murder was only true for a brief period (2 months) in 2018. That's not how crime statistics for major cities are typically done, however. We typically measure crimes like homicide by per year per 100,000 of population. This article points out that homicide was actually lower by half in London in 2018 than it was in NYC even though they have roughly comparable population sizes:

        https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/18/...re-to-new-york


        This podcast page even offers some interesting graphs. What I think is remarkable is how much crime has come down in NYC in recent years, likely due to better policing,

        https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...her-than-nycs/







        Edit: Just noticed Roy mentioned one of the same articles. Sorry for the repeat.


        I only agreed the anti-knife law was insane! Go pick on Rogue with this stuff - he's the one arguing about murder rates.

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          I think they target churches and schools because that's where a lot of people are. I don't think it has much to do with whether or not the people there are armed. Heck, one of the worst mass shootings was on a military base (Ft. Hood).
          Please to get informed.

          “Our disarmed military bases are vulnerable targets for terrorists, as we saw in Fort Hood and the Navy Yard,” Stockman said in a statement at the time. “Despite that, soldiers trained to use guns cannot carry on base. The result is two mass killings where defenseless soldiers had to watch as their friends were murdered.”

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...?noredirect=on
          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            I only agreed the anti-knife law was insane! Go pick on Rogue with this stuff - he's the one arguing about murder rates.

            I mean, I wasn't debating you. I was merely pointing out that the stats weren't exactly accurate. I was just replying to your post because I figured it was closer to the bottom of the pile, and it was still relevant.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              We haven't tried my idea yet, which is banning all guns except for police and military, but that's unlikely to happen in a nation so devoted to weapons.
              That's a great idea, as long as we can reliably trust the police and military. Unfortunately, they're human too.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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              • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                Please to get informed.
                Stop speaking in broken English, and The Washington Post is wrong. As a member of Security Forces, I was armed at all times while (in uniform) on the military base, and armories are typically not very far away.
                Last edited by Adrift; 08-09-2019, 12:03 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  It is a well known fact among police that criminals are subject to tunnel vision -- for real. They are already nervous, and so focused on getting their money, that they fail to see things in absolute plain sight.

                  Once, I was eating breakfast at a Denny's with a colleague - both of us on duty and in uniform - patrol car parked right outside, and some dude came in to rob the store. I had to motion for the people around me to stop waving in my direction and be hushed - we didn't want a shoot-out in the store. We wanted him to finish his robbery (clerk knew her job was to hand over the money) and take this all outside. It was almost comical - the gun he was holding had an orange tip - obviously a toy - and we had radioed for help, so two patrol units were pulling up outside as he was trying to exit, and when he tried to come back inside, my buddy and I were blocking the entrance, guns drawn. He gave up without a fight, and the restaurant erupted into cheers.

                  For the record, it's still armed robbery even with a toy gun if the clerk believed it to be real (she did) and was in fear for her life.
                  To be honest, while I know an orange tip denotes a toy, I'd just assume the thing was real - with my luck, I'd get the one smart alec that thought painting the tip of his barrel orange was funny.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    Possible, I thought I read less than a minute. I may have got it mixed up with the Dayton shooter timeline. But the argument is the same.
                    El Paso was six minutes and Dayton was thirty seconds (because there were police already on scene).
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      That's a great idea, as long as we can reliably trust the police and military. Unfortunately, they're human too.
                      I mean...they're armed now. You think an armed populace is currently stopping the from doing...something?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        To be honest, while I know an orange tip denotes a toy, I'd just assume the thing was real - with my luck, I'd get the one smart alec that thought painting the tip of his barrel orange was funny.
                        It is ALWAYS wise to assume a gun (even with an orange tip) is real -- even though we "knew" it was a toy, we acted no differently than if it had been a real gun. Thanks for the opportunity to clear that up.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          I think they target churches and schools because that's where a lot of people are. I don't think it has much to do with whether or not the people there are armed. Heck, one of the worst mass shootings was on a military base (Ft. Hood).
                          Guns on military bases are tightly controlled. You can't just walk around armed on a base. Weren't you in the military?


                          We haven't tried my idea yet, which is banning all guns except for police and military, but that's unlikely to happen in a nation so devoted to weapons.
                          Except we know your idea can't work because of the 2nd amendment which won't be going away any time soon. Solutions that are undo-able are no solutions at all.

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                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Guns on military bases are tightly controlled. You can't just walk around armed on a base. Weren't you in the military?
                            Yes, and I was armed while walking around a base.


                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Except we know your idea can't work because of the 2nd amendment which won't be going away any time soon. Solutions that are undo-able are no solutions at all.
                            Make an amendment to the Constitution to overrule the 2nd Amendment. Wouldn't be the first time we got rid of a previous amendment.

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                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              I mean...they're armed now. You think an armed populace is currently stopping the from doing...something?
                              Do I think that an armed populace helps keep potential bad actors in check? Yes. People do tend to act more circumspectly when they know they don't have overwhelming force reliably on their side.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                                Stop speaking in broken English, and The Washington Post is wrong. As a member of Security Forces, I was armed at all times while (in uniform) on the military base, and armories are typically not very far away.
                                so you were military police? Well, duh you were armed. How is that any different from a civilian area? And soldiers can't just run into an armory and grab a gun.

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