Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

It's The Ecomomy Stupid...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    bacon scented air...
    Cruel and unusual punishment personified!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Unemployment for workers without four-year or graduate degrees fell to just 3.5% in April, the lowest such mark since the 3.4% rate in April 2000, which was the lowest recorded, with data going back to 1992.

      https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...grees-in-april

      The unemployment rate for women in the U.S. workforce fell to 3.4 percent in April, the lowest rate since September 1953.

      https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...st-since-1953/

      Hispanic Unemployment Rate Sets New Record Low in April

      https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-b...cord-low-april
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Unemployment for workers without four-year or graduate degrees fell to just 3.5% in April, the lowest such mark since the 3.4% rate in April 2000, which was the lowest recorded, with data going back to 1992.

        https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...grees-in-april

        The unemployment rate for women in the U.S. workforce fell to 3.4 percent in April, the lowest rate since September 1953.

        https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...st-since-1953/

        Hispanic Unemployment Rate Sets New Record Low in April

        https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-b...cord-low-april
        Overall unemployment looking real good
        ABC: Unemployment hits 49-year low as US employers step up hiring


        This goes along with the news of a robust 263,000 jobs being created last month and a GDP last quarter at 3.2%. And inflation is around 2%, which this sort of economy usually causes it to rise as prices go up to cover the increase in wages needed to attract employees (for over a year there have been more jobs from highly skilled to barely skilled, than people to fill them causing employers to start offering incentives to hire and retain their workforce).

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          NYTimes...

          The Economy That Wasn’t Supposed to Happen: Booming Jobs, Low Inflation

          The labor market the United States is experiencing right now wasn’t supposed to be possible.

          Not that long ago, the overwhelming consensus among economists would have been that you couldn’t have a 3.6 percent unemployment rate without also seeing the rate of job creation slowing (where are new workers going to come from with so few out of work, after all?) and having an inflation surge (a worker shortage should mean employers bidding up wages, right?).

          And yet that is what has happened, with the April employment numbers putting an exclamation point on the trend. The jobless rate receded to its lowest level in five decades....
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            The truth has finally been revealed... MSNBC's Chris Hayes says that business owners across the country deliberately sabotaged the economy while Obama was in office because they didn't want a Democrat president to succeed.

            https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/...oming-economy/

            (On the other hand, this is essentially an admission that the Obama presidency was a failure.)
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Yeah boy...

              Unemployment hits 49-year low as US employers step up hiring

              The U.S. added 263,000 new hires in April, easily beating Wall Street expectations of 190,000.

              The unemployment rate fell to 3.6% vs. 3.8% expected and the lowest since December 1969.

              Average hourly earnings growth held at 3.2% over the past year, a notch below Dow Jones estimates of 3.3%. The monthly gain was 0.2%, below the expected 0.3% increase, bringing the average to $27.77. The average work week also dropped 0.1 hours to 34.4 hours.

              https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/03/nonf...pril-2019.html

              https://apnews.com/8a603c0717d44e9a9edca5f342129685
              First - the economy was well on it's way to recovery before Trump took office. Unemployment dropped 6 points from it's peak under Obama. Under Trump it has dropped another 1.4 percent. Meanwhile, when Obama was in office, many on the right were screaming "false numbers" because they did not take into account the labor participation rate (which unemployment numbers have never taken into account, BTW). Now, suddenly, we hear very little about the labor participation rate, which dropped from just under 66% at the peak of unemployment to just under 62.5 near the end of 2015. It bounced back to almost 63% by the end of Obama's term. Under Trump it has oscillated between 62.75 and 63 (so basically not moved). It briefly spiked to 63.25 earlier this year, and then dropped back to 62.75 (below the level it was at when Obama left office). Given the timing, I have to wonder how much of the "low unemployment" is actually reflecting that drop in the labor participation rate.

              Second - anyone can goose and economy by pumping a trillion $ into it. Obama and that COngress did it to try to deal with the worst recession since the Great Depression and was well on the way to correcting the resulting deficit. Trump has done so when the economy was comparatively healthy with a $1T deficit price tag that is projected to increase.

              Third - For many of us - money isn't everything. There are many things we care more about and would be willing to see a bit of a slower economy if that is the price.
              Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-04-2019, 01:38 PM.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #22
                Ah, yes, I was waiting for a liberal to pop into this thread and try to talk down Trump's economic success, because everybody knows that a first-term president riding high on a strong economy is very hard to beat.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Third - For many of us - money isn't everything. There are many things we care more about and would be willing to see a bit of a slower economy if that is the price.
                  Personally, I think you should have led with this.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Ah, yes, I was waiting for a liberal to pop into this thread and try to talk down Trump's economic success, because everybody knows that a first-term president riding high on a strong economy is very hard to beat.
                    We'll see.

                    It will be VERY interesting to see if the TYPE of president this odious man represents will change that math....
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Personally, I think you should have led with this.
                      I leave the best for dessert!
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        First - the economy was well on it's way to recovery before Trump took office. Unemployment dropped 6 points from it's peak under Obama. Under Trump it has dropped another 1.4 percent.
                        The economy really had no where to go but up, there is a natural up and down to these things. Obama did very little to boost or support private business. Trump did that in spades. And Obama largely used Quantitative Easing to spur the economy, which was great for banks and stock holders but did little for construction, manufacturing, general sales or service industries, though some trickled down. And that is why income inequality was worse under Obama than Bush: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/incom...bush_n_1419008. If the FED re-instituted QE today the economy would explode. And some of the fastest growth has been with blue collar workers:https://www.washingtonpost.com/


                        Third - For many of us - money isn't everything. There are many things we care more about and would be willing to see a bit of a slower economy if that is the price.
                        Well if you are fairly well off you can think that way. Though the deficit is a real worry.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          The economy really had no where to go but up, there is a natural up and down to these things. Obama did very little to boost or support private business. Trump did that in spades.
                          Let's call it what it was, Seer - a hand-out to the wealthiest. Most of what Trump has done to "support business" was done at the cost of the ecology, climate issues, safety issue, and the national debt. In other words, the common man was tossed under the bus so Trump could feed his friends and placate his base with platitudes. His base may eat up all of that horse poo - but the rest of us don't.

                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          And Obama largely used Quantitative Easing to spur the economy, which was great for banks and stock holders but did little for construction, manufacturing, general sales or service industries, though some trickled down.
                          That was indeed ONE tool - and it did indeed have the impact you described. But under Obama, those same banks were put under some strict controls to try to prevent another round of this occurring again - protections that Trump and his cronies have rolled back in spades because (of course) that's what the banks and his cronies wanted.

                          So I agree that Obama left manufacturing too much out of his calculations - as well as many regions hard hit by changes in the fuel industries. Trump rode that oversight right into the White House.

                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          And that is why income inequality was worse under Obama than Bush: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/incom...bush_n_1419008. If the FED re-instituted QE today the economy would explode. And some of the fastest growth has been with blue collar workers:https://www.washingtonpost.com/
                          Income inequality has been increasing since the 1980s, Seer, so it has been worse under each successive president. In other words, your statement would correctly apply to any two successive presidents since the 1980s. It started with Reagan (worse than Carter) and then was worse under Bush than under Reagan, worse under Clinton than under Bush, and now its worse under Trump than under Obama. Given that it has now reached levels not seen since before the Great Depression, Mr. Trump has not been exactly a friend of the poor or middle class. He's been a friend of the rich, with enough crumbs tossed at the poor and middle class to keep them from complaining too loudly as the rich laugh all the way to the bank.

                          As for the blue collar worker, your link goes to the Washington Post home page, Seer, so I have no idea what you were trying to link to. Maybe this one? Meanwhile, percentages are so tempting, aren't they? But when we live in a country where the top 1% possess 40% of the wealth and the bottom 80% share 7% of the wealth, the statistics show that the bottom could experience a 20% improvement while the top experience a 5% improvement, and the gap would continue to increase - meaning the rich continue to get richer at a level the poor cannot match. But on paper - look - the "little people" are doing better! So while they are preening at their $2K increase (as Sparko did in another thread), the wealthiest are socking away tens and hundreds of millions!

                          The foolish will swallow such statistics and applaud their leader/hero. Someone willing to actually look at the data will realize that the little person is being conned.

                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Well if you are fairly well off you can think that way. Though the deficit is a real worry.
                          It's not just the well-off thinking that way, Seer. Take a look around at what people are saying and what concerns them. I think you'll find that a lot of people hold the ecological state of our planet, our relationships with allies, true middle-class and lower class opportunity, safety, and honesty to be more important than "money" and "the economy."

                          Personally, I look forward to being able to hold my head up high again when our designated representative visits other nations and acts on our behalf. The current clown is an embarrassment in so many ways.
                          Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-04-2019, 03:25 PM.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Let's call it what it was, Seer - a hand-out to the wealthiest. Most of what Trump has done to "support business" was done at the cost of the ecology, climate issues, safety issue, and the national debt. In other words, the common man was tossed under the bus so Trump could feed his friends and placate his base with platitudes. His base may eat up all of that horse poo - but the rest of us don't.
                            Nonsense, the Corporate tax cuts apply to all Corporations small and large, I know many small Corporations who benefited. Certainly the larger the Corporation, the more gain. But that only helps us be more competitive in world markets.



                            That was indeed ONE tool - and it did indeed have the impact you described. But under Obama, those same banks were put under some strict controls to try to prevent another round of this occurring again - protections that Trump and his cronies have rolled back in spades because (of course) that's what the banks and his cronies wanted.

                            So I agree that Obama left manufacturing too much out of his calculations - as well as many regions hard hit by changes in the fuel industries. Trump rode that oversight right into the White House.

                            Income inequality has been increasing since the 1980s, Seer, so it has been worse under each successive president. In other words, your statement would correctly apply to any two successive presidents since the 1980s. It started with Reagan (worse than Carter) and then was worse under Bush than under Reagan, worse under Clinton than under Bush, and now its worse under Trump than under Obama. Given that it has now reached levels not seen since before the Great Depression, Mr. Trump has not been exactly a friend of the poor or middle class. He's been a friend of the rich, with enough crumbs tossed at the poor and middle class to keep them from complaining too loudly as the rich laugh all the way to the bank.
                            Obviously Obama was a friend of the rich too, not only did he not stem the tide of income inequality, his policies made it worse.



                            As for the blue collar worker, your link goes to the Washington Post home page, Seer, so I have no idea what you were trying to link to. Maybe this one? Meanwhile, percentages are so tempting, aren't they? But when we live in a country where the top 1% possess 40% of the wealth and the bottom 80% share 7% of the wealth, the statistics show that the bottom could experience a 20% improvement while the top experience a 5% improvement, and the gap would continue to increase - meaning the rich continue to get richer at a level the poor cannot match. But on paper - look - the "little people" are doing better! So while they are preening at their $2K increase (as Sparko did in another thread), the wealthiest are socking away tens and hundreds of millions!
                            This is how leftists think, is not a Zero-Sum Game Carp. My car is not slow because another one's is fast. First, people regularly move between income classes, it is not static. Second, as the economy grows more monies are poured into the economy (more dollars in circulation https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CURRCIR). I am not rich, nor will I ever be, but some people seem to have an unhealthy envy of the wealthy.
                            Last edited by seer; 05-04-2019, 04:25 PM.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Nonsense, the Corporate tax cuts apply to all Corporations small and large, I know many small Corporations who benefited. Certainly the larger the Corporation, the more gain. But that only helps us be more competitive in world markets.
                              Nonsense. You're ignoring the disproportionate amount of the tax cut that went straight into the pockets of the wealthiest in the form of stock buybacks. Yes, everyone got a boost - but the boost was skewed to increase disproportionately to the wealthiest. Congress and Trump fed the American public a bill of goods and Trump's base bought into lock stock and barrel. The rest of us didn't.

                              As for "more competitive on world markets," your claim doesn't translate to reality. 2015/2016 were two years when export growth was essentially flat. Since Trump took office, they have returned to levels BELOW what they were in the previous years of the Obama administration, and that return happened BEFORE the tax cut.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Obviously Obama was a friend of the rich too, not only did he not stem the tide of income inequality, his policies made it worse.
                              As already noted, it has been "made worse" by every single U.S. President since (and including) Reagan. So you're not saying anything. And Trump has not changed this dynamic - he is ALSO making it worse.

                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              This is how leftists think, is not a Zero-Sum Game Carp. My car is not slow because another one's is fast. First, people regularly move between income classes, it is not static. Second, as the economy grows more monies are poured into the economy (more dollars in circulation https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CURRCIR). I am not rich, nor will I ever be, but some people seem to have an unhealthy envy of the wealthy.
                              Again - your claims do not translate to reality. Economic mobility has been on the decline since the 1980s, which aligns with the reality of income and wealth disparity. This Wikipedia page cites several studies you might be interested in. And yes, the economy grows as more monies are poured in. That has almost nothing to do with what I said. The data shows that those monies are disproportionately going to the wealthiest and the gap between wealthiest and poorest continues to widen.

                              What truly amazes me is people like you. I know enough about you to know you are not in the top 20%. You are actually one of those being negatively impacted by the policies that continue to create a huge gap between the wealthiest and people in your income bracket. Yet there you sit championing the very policies that take the vast amount of wealth generated in this country and funnel it to the wealthiest at the expense of the other economic classes, and pointing to the few hundred or couple thousand dollars you just benefited this year as a "great thing."

                              It's like watching a slave defend the rights of their master to discipline them as they see fit. It just boggles the imagination.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Nonsense. You're ignoring the disproportionate amount of the tax cut that went straight into the pockets of the wealthiest in the form of stock buybacks. Yes, everyone got a boost - but the boost was skewed to increase disproportionately to the wealthiest. Congress and Trump fed the American public a bill of goods and Trump's base bought into lock stock and barrel. The rest of us didn't.
                                What is nonsense is that you seem to have a problem with people spending their own earned monies as they wish. Like stock buy backs. Which BTW puts more money into the pockets of the stock holders whom the stocks were purchased from, and can and does help with the long term viability of the company: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...own-shares.asp

                                As for "more competitive on world markets," your claim doesn't translate to reality. 2015/2016 were two years when export growth was essentially flat. Since Trump took office, they have returned to levels BELOW what they were in the previous years of the Obama administration, and that return happened BEFORE the tax cut.
                                I have no idea what this means, we are still in the middle of three major trade negotiations, these things won't be realized for a few years. Second, common sense. Less business tax and regulation can only help foster a better climate for growth. Why is that a negative?

                                As already noted, it has been "made worse" by every single U.S. President since (and including) Reagan. So you're not saying anything. And Trump has not changed this dynamic - he is ALSO making it worse.
                                Well then I guess no one can make it better, not that I see it as a problem. Capitalism has done more than any other system in history to raise the general population out of poverty.


                                The data shows that those monies are disproportionately going to the wealthiest and the gap between wealthiest and poorest continues to widen.
                                So what? The poor are doing better in this country today than anytime in our history: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#5acc513154ef


                                What truly amazes me is people like you. I know enough about you to know you are not in the top 20%. You are actually one of those being negatively impacted by the policies that continue to create a huge gap between the wealthiest and people in your income bracket. Yet there you sit championing the very policies that take the vast amount of wealth generated in this country and funnel it to the wealthiest at the expense of the other economic classes, and pointing to the few hundred or couple thousand dollars you just benefited this year as a "great thing."
                                You are still not making sense. How are the rich picking my pocket? I mentioned this before Carp, I have a few childhood friends who are millionaires today in their 60s. Why? All my life I was content with working, mostly, a 40 hour week and having my nights and weekends to myself. These other friends of mine took the chance, started their own businesses and worked 12-14 hours a day 6-7 days a week. There is nothing, but our choices, that prevent us from doing well in this country. BTW - two of these old friends were high school drop outs.

                                It's like watching a slave defend the rights of their master to discipline them as they see fit. It just boggles the imagination.
                                Yes I understand Mr. Marx... Envy is not a good quality Carp...
                                Last edited by seer; 05-06-2019, 09:12 AM.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                180 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                417 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                87 responses
                                395 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Working...
                                X