Sondland admits quid pro quo

[JimL]

As this article points out, Jim, it happens far more than you'd imagine...

Criminally Yours: Lying To Get To The Truth



and...



I was taught in basic police school this "it's ok to lie to get a confession" -- I never felt comfortable with that, but, yeah - it happens FAR more than you'd ever imagine.

They obviously did that to a naive person without a lawyer present. Cohen is a lawyer himself, and was also represented by a team of lawyers.

[Mountain Man]

I was taught in basic police school this "it's ok to lie to get a confession" -- I never felt comfortable with that, but, yeah - it happens FAR more than you'd ever imagine.

I covered a story once where a guy was falsely accused of stealing $100 from a convenience store. First of all, the police had the store clerk identify the "suspect" based on a low-quality photocopy of his drivers license, which was sketchy enough, but once they had him in questioning, the police really leaned on him and told him things like, "Look, man, the store owner doesn't want the hassle of a trial, and frankly neither do we, so if you just give us the money you stole, we'll close the investigation, and you'll be free to go." He said he was really tempted to go along with it because he just wanted out of there, but he was savvy enough not to fall for it, and eventually the police were forced to admit that it was case of "misidentification". Of course then the poor guy still had an arrest on his record and was fighting to have it expunged, which the city was curiously reluctant to do.

[JimL]

So, the Senate is only 'scrupulous' if they convict?

No, they have shown themselves to be pretty unscupulous regardless, which was my point.

Can we see the testimony under oath, subject to cross-examination first, please?

Can't wait, although much of it is already been out there for your consumption.

But, yes, you're pretty much admitting this is all political, like I stated before - it's a "show trial", the ultimate outcome of which will probably be the way people vote in an upcoming election.

No, it is not a "show trial" by which I assume you to mean "not legit".

[Mountain Man]

They obviously did that to a naive person without a lawyer present. Cohen is a lawyer himself, and was also represented by a team of lawyers.

Yep, and the prosecutors made him an offer: confess to a crime you didn't commit so we have something to use against Trump, and we'll give you a lighter sentence on the crimes you did commit.

Why wouldn't he have taken that deal? He had nothing to lose.

[Cow Poke]

They obviously did that to a naive person without a lawyer present. Cohen is a lawyer himself, and was also represented by a team of lawyers.

That was only one example, Jim. I've personally been involved in cases where the accused swears he is innocent, but the lawyer talks him into "taking a deal" because of the tremendous expense of a trial, and the possibility that the jury will convict anyway.

It's not at all unusual for a lawyer to convince his client "you MIGHT be found not guilty, but if you plead to this misdemeanor, I can pretty well guaranty no jail time and only probation and community service" as opposed to doing 15 years in prison if you happen to lose. It literally happens all the time, Jim.

[Cow Poke]

No, they have shown themselves to be pretty unscupulous regardless, which was my point.

They're politicians.

Can't wait, although much of it is already been out there for your consumption.

Actually, what's 'out there' is one-sided accusations and leaked information, none of which has been under oath and subject to cross-examination in a formal setting.

No, it is not a "show trial" by which I assume you to mean "not legit".

Never said it was "not legit" - but impeachment is, by its very nature, a PARTISAN affair of late - and the rules of evidence of an actual LEGAL trial are not the same.

[firstfloor]

Hasn't Pelosi given the green light for impeachment?

No. This is an investigation. Early days.

[Cow Poke]

No. This is an investigation. Early days.

No, it's far more than that.

An impeachment inquiry has begun



Here is a link to the memorandum in question.

[firstfloor]

You say this like it isn't a foregone conclusion. Of course Pelosi is going to "do impeachment". That was the plan from day one when Democrats took control of the House in 2018. The only reason she has feigned hesitation is because of unexpectedly losing seats in the Senate which really upset their plans, because otherwise there is no doubt in my mind that they would have voted for impeachment and removal from office on the first day Congress was back in session in early 2019.

Plan B, of course, was to keep the sham "inquiry" going late into 2020 in order to tip the scales against Trump during the general election, but with Barr and Durham getting ready to open a can of you-know-what, the Democrats have had to put impeachment on the fast-track. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, but chances are good that low-info sky-screamers like you are going to be bitterly disappointed yet again.

If the investigation turns up some wrongdoing, and there are no consequences, the leader of the free world has set a new standard of swampiness.

Personally, I think it is the duty of every POTUS to look after the office and had it over in good or better condition when he leaves. He is not there just to not get caught committing crimes.

[Cow Poke]

If the investigation turns up some wrongdoing, and there are no consequences, the leader of the free world has set a new standard of swampiness.

Trump is by far the jackassiest POTUS in my lifetime, but being a jackass is not an impeachable offense.

Personally, I think it is the duty of every POTUS to look after the office and had it over in good or better condition when he leaves.

That's called "good stewardship" and 100% agree!!!

He is not there just to not get caught committing crimes.

A) So he needs to be sneakier and not get caught?
2) Let's see if there is actually a formal charge of an actual crime under oath and subject to cross-examination.

[Mountain Man]

If the investigation turns up some wrongdoing, and there are no consequences, the leader of the free world has set a new standard of swampiness.

Personally, I think it is the duty of every POTUS to look after the office and had it over in good or better condition when he leaves. He is not there just to not get caught committing crimes.

They've been investigating Trump since before he was even elected. If they haven't found conclusive evidence of wrongdoing by now, then they never will.

[firstfloor]

They've been investigating Trump since before he was even elected. If they haven't found conclusive evidence of wrongdoing by now, then they never will.

Mueller catalogued his crimes for posterity. Not enough Americans care to read the evidence. It will make a good movie but it might not have a satisfying ending; the crook walks free.

[Cow Poke]

Mueller catalogued his crimes for posterity.

Care to list those CRIMES here?

[firstfloor]

Care to list those CRIMES here?

There are several instances of obstruction. I will get a list. While you are waiting:

[Cow Poke]

There are several instances of obstruction. I will get a list. While you are waiting:

Crimes, please.

Charities such as the one Mr Trump and his three eldest children headed cannot engage in politics, the judge ruled.

Two words - Clinton Foundation.