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Secret Giving as Opposed to Public Giving

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  • Secret Giving as Opposed to Public Giving

    OK, so this has come up a number of times.

    It always seems to come down to a pretty binary - either/or.

    Here, from KG, is what sparked my interest. And, let me be clear, I'm NOT saying he's wrong!

    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Nobody should reveal their charitable giving. Jesus was clear that it is to be secret. Thus I feel asking is out of bounds.
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I simply don't see a reason not to take Jesus literally here. Good deeds in general can be apparent to others, and goodness is a fruit of the spirit, but Jesus seemed to single out charitable giving in particular as something to be done in secret. If others find out about it, so be it, but Jesus words are clear to me: for us to publicize it seems to negate any spiritual benefit.
    Maybe I'm just thinking this is taken to literally, I don't know. I just thought it would be worth discussing.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I don't think that's as ironclad as some people think, after all, there's "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven". (matt 5:16)
    But I think this is worth discussing, so how bout making your best case for "nobody should"?
    So - in this thread, this is NOT "scripture battle", this is a discussion from brothers and sisters in the Lord talking about giving. OK?

    First, KG, could you post the scriptures that you feel support your position? And, maybe it's the way we define "charitable giving"?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    Right off the bat, I think I tend to agree with KG.

    For example (and speaking for myself here), say I donate to something online--if there's a "give anonymously" option, I'll always choose it. You could say it's personal experience, but I'm suspicious enough of my own motivation that I don't know if I could trust myself if I didn't take that option. I don't apply this to other people: if I see that someone else donated and gave their name, I assume good motivation on their part. But for myself, I don't trust my own motivation.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think Jesus was just warning people about being like the Pharisees who gave in order to get recognition. They were bragging about their charity. Their motivation wasn't to help people as much as it was about making themselves look good. Nothing but marketing.

      So I don't think there is anything wrong with letting people know you give to charity or how much, just as long as you gave to charity to help others and not for recognition and praise from other people.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        Right off the bat, I think I tend to agree with KG.
        And, I'm not saying I don't. I think it's more of -- I'm kinda wired to question statements or opinions that tend to sound like "always" or "never".

        For example (and speaking for myself here), say I donate to something online--if there's a "give anonymously" option, I'll always choose it. You could say it's personal experience, but I'm suspicious enough of my own motivation that I don't know if I could trust myself if I didn't take that option. I don't apply this to other people: if I see that someone else donated and gave their name, I assume good motivation on their part. But for myself, I don't trust my own motivation.
        I love giving and helping. And I love getting a tax deduction for it, because that makes more money available to me for more giving and helping. As long as there is a tax benefit, I'll avail myself of it, but it's not the reason. It's because God just keeps blessing and blessing. Plus, I'm nutty enough to believe I can put my money to better use in helping others than the government can.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I think Jesus was just warning people about being like the Pharisees who gave in order to get recognition. They were bragging about their charity. Their motivation wasn't to help people as much as it was about making themselves look good. Nothing but marketing.

          So I don't think there is anything wrong with letting people know you give to charity or how much, just as long as you gave to charity to help others and not for recognition and praise from other people.
          I guess I'm thinking in the context of common giving. Like, for example, the guy I posted about helping with DL, SSN, birth certificate, etc. I think that encouraged others in my Church to assist, too. But we don't want to duplicate each other's efforts, and we want to have an idea that the right kind of help is being given, so there is some coordination there. We don't announce it in Church on Sunday Morning, but we do keep each other apprised of needs, and how we did or will meet them.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I guess I'm thinking in the context of common giving. Like, for example, the guy I posted about helping with DL, SSN, birth certificate, etc. I think that encouraged others in my Church to assist, too. But we don't want to duplicate each other's efforts, and we want to have an idea that the right kind of help is being given, so there is some coordination there. We don't announce it in Church on Sunday Morning, but we do keep each other apprised of needs, and how we did or will meet them.
            I wouldn't have any problem with that. The idea of coordinating, for example, just seems prudent.
            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I guess I'm thinking in the context of common giving. Like, for example, the guy I posted about helping with DL, SSN, birth certificate, etc. I think that encouraged others in my Church to assist, too. But we don't want to duplicate each other's efforts, and we want to have an idea that the right kind of help is being given, so there is some coordination there. We don't announce it in Church on Sunday Morning, but we do keep each other apprised of needs, and how we did or will meet them.
              That too. The point remains though. You did what you did to help others, not so you could get praise from others and puff yourself up. I think that is what Jesus was warning about.

              if you said, "hey I can help this homeless guy out and then everyone will say what a great guy I am when I tell them about it!" then while you still did good for that guy, your motivation was selfish and that praise is all you are going to get as a reward.

              Comment


              • #8
                Just so happens I'm aware of a conflict along the very lines we're discussing, though....

                A local lawyer tends to think of herself as rather altruistic, and recently we had an emergency community project where we needed to raise $50,000. I took the lead in coordinating that, and roped some other community figures into helping.

                This lawyer volunteered that she would match dollar for dollar the contributions which we collected - so we would only need to raise, in theory, $25,000.

                As we blew by the $25,000 goal, I let her know we were almost there, and she got kinda squeemish, and said, "well, I'd need to see the list of donors and how much each gave".

                That was never part of the deal - and I certainly didn't feel comfortable disclosing that information, even if I had it. (I had enlisted the aid of another Church to be the "trustee" of the money, as I didn't want it to appear that this money was intended to benefit "my" church)

                So, she backed out of the deal, which was tremendously disappointing.

                By that time, however, we reached the goal of $50,000 without her.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                  I wouldn't have any problem with that. The idea of coordinating, for example, just seems prudent.
                  And, I think is part of being a good steward with God's money.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Just so happens I'm aware of a conflict along the very lines we're discussing, though....

                    A local lawyer tends to think of herself as rather altruistic, and recently we had an emergency community project where we needed to raise $50,000. I took the lead in coordinating that, and roped some other community figures into helping.

                    This lawyer volunteered that she would match dollar for dollar the contributions which we collected - so we would only need to raise, in theory, $25,000.

                    As we blew by the $25,000 goal, I let her know we were almost there, and she got kinda squeemish, and said, "well, I'd need to see the list of donors and how much each gave".

                    That was never part of the deal - and I certainly didn't feel comfortable disclosing that information, even if I had it. (I had enlisted the aid of another Church to be the "trustee" of the money, as I didn't want it to appear that this money was intended to benefit "my" church)

                    So, she backed out of the deal, which was tremendously disappointing.

                    By that time, however, we reached the goal of $50,000 without her.
                    yeah that seems odd. As long as you could show her that you collected $25K that should be sufficient for her. What difference would it make who gave what?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The obvious passage that comes to mind here is Matthew 6:1-4:

                      Be careful not to perform your righteous acts before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
                      So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be praised by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

                      However, I just thought of another passage that might suggest a less strict interpretation: 2 Corinthians 9:5. Paul talks about a gift that was "promised" by the Corinthian church to the poor believers in Macedonia. Clearly there had to be some discussion/coordination of how that gift was put together, especially since Paul knew it was coming ahead of time. In a church context that sort of makes sense. A church needs pledges from people so they know how much to budget for. The heart reason for why people pledge/give is still important there. So I don't know how that all is going to fit in with what Jesus said about charitable giving.

                      Maybe a good question to ask would be "would I still do this if nobody ever found out about it", and if there's any hesitation at all there, there's a heart problem.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        yeah that seems odd. As long as you could show her that you collected $25K that should be sufficient for her. What difference would it make who gave what?
                        I'm not sure if that was just her way of trying to back out, or she didn't trust the people at the Church who were serving as trustees.... we did that all "legit" with setting up a separate bank account, having a board of directors, consulting with banking people, CPAs, etc.... Or maybe she's just nutty.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Maybe a good question to ask would be "would I still do this if nobody ever found out about it", and if there's any hesitation at all there, there's a heart problem.
                          This is pretty much why I do it anonymously if possible, because I know myself and I know just how self-centered I am....
                          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            The obvious passage that comes to mind here is Matthew 6:1-4:

                            Be careful not to perform your righteous acts before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
                            So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be praised by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

                            However, I just thought of another passage that might suggest a less strict interpretation: 2 Corinthians 9:5. Paul talks about a gift that was "promised" by the Corinthian church to the poor believers in Macedonia. Clearly there had to be some discussion/coordination of how that gift was put together, especially since Paul knew it was coming ahead of time. In a church context that sort of makes sense. A church needs pledges from people so they know how much to budget for. The heart reason for why people pledge/give is still important there. So I don't know how that all is going to fit in with what Jesus said about charitable giving.

                            Maybe a good question to ask would be "would I still do this if nobody ever found out about it", and if there's any hesitation at all there, there's a heart problem.
                            But this thing is multi-faceted. There's the individual (or entity) who/that needs help, and the "heart" of the giver doesn't matter to them, they get helped regardless. For the "giver", though, there can be the 'earthly' satisfaction of knowing they did a good thing. In your 'proof text' (which is exactly what I suspected), I don't think it's so much a warning to not give publicly, but to understand it's all about motives. The "sounding the trumpet", I think, is the key --- if you're ONLY doing it for earthly recognition, that's all you'll get.

                            If you go really literally on this, KG, what do you do about the early Church selling things and giving the money to the apostles for distribution? It's kinda hard to do that secretly, but, at the same time, it wasn't a "hey everybody, look what I'm doing" thing.

                            I appreciate you taking the time to engage in this, because I think sometimes we really oversimplify this whole thing.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              The obvious passage that comes to mind here is Matthew 6:1-4:

                              Be careful not to perform your righteous acts before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
                              So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be praised by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
                              The relevant phrases highlighted above. Don't do good for selfish reasons.


                              Maybe a good question to ask would be "would I still do this if nobody ever found out about it", and if there's any hesitation at all there, there's a heart problem.
                              yep.

                              I usually try to give anonymously when possible just to avoid the problem.

                              Comment

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