The Eruv

[Marta]

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

The Eruv and in relationship with this passage out of Nehemiah "centers" on the understanding on the boundary lines during Shabbath- it means that the doors shut and that "nothing" can or will disturb "the rest" of the Shabbath, -





The confusion is what was the purpose of the Eruv, what is it suppose to prevent? The carrying of object from public to a private domain? My point is that I think it's more than that? Basing my opinion on the book of Nehemiah. Nehemiah instituted reforms that strengthened their future observance. Nehemiah had "guarded" the people from desecrating the Shabbath but why (in Jesus's time) didn't the Rabbi's cleanse out the temple themselves?

I don't believe that you can "fence" around the laws of Shabbath but you can attend to everyday "necessities" of living and transportation during those times, and as the people have done - set up parameters.

What's The Point Of An Eruv?
The Halacha of Eruvim.

Note: Fences may be used as part of the boundary without modification; however, if the ground is eroded beneath the fence to any significant degree, the space must be filled in. Lastly, all the areas to be enclosed must be "residential areas," or areas suitable for residential areas. It is not permitted to include cemeteries or bodies of water (such as lakes, streams, and ponds). Such areas must be excluded from the Eruv by enclosing them (either by not including them in the Eruv area, or by encircling them within the Eruv).

An Eruv is generally designed by encircling a community with a continuous string or wire. There are numerous regulations concerning the placement of this wire. Those who live in and use an Eruv have an obligation to ensure that the Eruv is intact before taking advantage of its presence. Usually, there is a group that maintains the Eruv that provides such information, and conducts weekly inspections.

The purpose is stated in the message, "He was told that this was the place where God would "dwell" among his people" - creating a place for uniting the Jewish people with God! No matter where you're located or live, you can always "create" a place (even within your own home) as a designated place where you can rest and be with God.


But Nehemiah did more than rebuild a wall, as we will learn. This book is also the story of the restoring of a people from ruin and despair to a new walk with God. Jerusalem is not only an historic city which has for centuries been the center of the life of the nation of Israel (and, in fact, the center of the biblical record), it is also a symbolic city. Jerusalem is also used in a pictorial sense throughout the Scriptures. What it pictures is the place where God desires to dwell. When the city was first designated to King David as the place where God wanted him to build the temple, he was told that this was the place where God would dwell among his people.

[Marta]

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

In thought - Sparko, the idea was that "anything" (meaning goods to sell or to trade) that were brought into the city (eruv - is in the same respect, as within the city walls of Jerusalem) was (and under Nehemiah) forbidden - it was considered under "burdening" the congregation in a sense. Under law, and dealing with the parameters of Tircha D'Tzibbur, it could constitute as burdening the congregation or disrupting "that rest" on the Shabbath. It was forbidden to do business on that day whether it was within the city or outside of the city. However, the prophet "slept" outside the perimeter of the city to prevent anything from "burdening" the community. Hopefully, I am not in error on this subject:

Jeremiah and the Prohibition of Carrying

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The subject - as a whole, is the word "burden" - as scripture states, "Guard yourselves for your own sake against carrying burdens on the Sabbath dayReflections of the Heart

Many things constitute "Carrying" - but again, the thought is "CASTING" those burdens - loads/work "AWAY" for one day and centering on God.



Sparko, I don't mean to be confusing, however, some categories of prohibitions on Shabbat might have a double meaning to them - or a larger meaning. Even according to Jeremiah and Nehemiah, I believe, was they were centralizing "Shabbath" regulations. So it's my bad

[Sparko]

nope still not getting your point. I never asked about the history of the subject. I was pointing out the legalistic and ridiculous idea in the first place and how the whole thing is nothing but a "cheat" in the first place.

[DesertBerean]

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

Lol... I guess it depends on what one is looking for. The info I had been looking at was way over my head in terms of explaining their mindset. I believe Marta was able to help me out. Doesn't mean I understand it ALL... I just got a clue into seeing where they're coming from.

[One Bad Pig]

It strikes me as "cheating" - If they truly believe in the sabbath and the rules, they would not try to invent "loop holes" to not actually observe it. They are trying to cheat by artificially calling an entire city their "private home" - which it clearly is not.

The whole restrictions on working and carrying on the sabbath have gotten way to extreme in the first place, to not even being able to work a light switch on the sabbath or push an elevator button. It is as bad as the Pharisees in the bible were with creating too many rules and restrictions. But now, to get around their own self imposed restrictions, they create new loop holes to let them cheat. God is probably up there shaking his head in amusement at their antics.

Well, the basic prohibition is against working on the sabbath. Since "work" isn't explicitly designed, the intent of the extra laws is to make sure one doesn't accidentally violate the main prohibition. The scribes got a little carried away with that, IMO. It seems to me that the intent of the "sabbath day's journey" was to limit not so much how far one could go, but where one could go (i.e., the tabernacle). Given that driving takes rather less energy than walking, and that going to worship at synagogue would seem to be something which God would encourage, it seems faintly ridiculous to me that, e.g., driving 45 minutes to synagogue (or even bringing a dish of food along) would violate anything.

[Faber]

Given that driving takes rather less energy than walking, and that going to worship at synagogue would seem to be something which God would encourage, it seems faintly ridiculous to me that, e.g., driving 45 minutes to synagogue (or even bringing a dish of food along) would violate anything.

If you're driving a four cylinder internal combustion vehicle at 3,000 RPM for 45 minutes, you will have broken the Sabbath 5.4 million times before you get to the synagogue.

[rogue06]

It strikes me as "cheating" - If they truly believe in the sabbath and the rules, they would not try to invent "loop holes" to not actually observe it. They are trying to cheat by artificially calling an entire city their "private home" - which it clearly is not.

The whole restrictions on working and carrying on the sabbath have gotten way to extreme in the first place, to not even being able to work a light switch on the sabbath or push an elevator button. It is as bad as the Pharisees in the bible were with creating too many rules and restrictions. But now, to get around their own self imposed restrictions, they create new loop holes to let them cheat. God is probably up there shaking his head in amusement at their antics.

It's like Catholics who in earlier centuries would lower a chunk of meat into a well and "fish it out" on Friday in order to get around the prohibition against eating meat on that day.

[Sparko]

Well, the basic prohibition is against working on the sabbath. Since "work" isn't explicitly designed, the intent of the extra laws is to make sure one doesn't accidentally violate the main prohibition. The scribes got a little carried away with that, IMO. It seems to me that the intent of the "sabbath day's journey" was to limit not so much how far one could go, but where one could go (i.e., the tabernacle). Given that driving takes rather less energy than walking, and that going to worship at synagogue would seem to be something which God would encourage, it seems faintly ridiculous to me that, e.g., driving 45 minutes to synagogue (or even bringing a dish of food along) would violate anything.

It's like Jesus said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. God gave us the sabbath as a GIFT not a burden.

Men created their own onerous rules to burden themselves, and then they come up with ways to cheat on those rules that God never intended in the first place.

[Sparko]

It's like Catholics who in earlier centuries would lower a chunk of meat into a well and "fish it out" on Friday in order to get around the prohibition against eating meat on that day.

[psstein]

Well, the basic prohibition is against working on the sabbath. Since "work" isn't explicitly designed, the intent of the extra laws is to make sure one doesn't accidentally violate the main prohibition. The scribes got a little carried away with that, IMO. It seems to me that the intent of the "sabbath day's journey" was to limit not so much how far one could go, but where one could go (i.e., the tabernacle). Given that driving takes rather less energy than walking, and that going to worship at synagogue would seem to be something which God would encourage, it seems faintly ridiculous to me that, e.g., driving 45 minutes to synagogue (or even bringing a dish of food along) would violate anything.

It's creative work that is forbidden, not work more generally. The reason driving is forbidden (at least by the Orthodox) is that it makes use of creative energy.

Many of the restrictions that Orthodox Jewry (and some Conservative Jews, though an increasingly vanishing group in Conservatism) holds to are largely designed to prevent the commandment from being broken at all. For example, the prohibition against eating chicken with dairy is designed to prevent accidental transgression.

Here's a relevant section from the Mishnah: http://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Chullin.8.4?lang=bi

[One Bad Pig]

It's creative work that is forbidden, not work more generally. The reason driving is forbidden (at least by the Orthodox) is that it makes use of creative energy.

Yet IIRC the test case in the Torah is someone picking up sticks on the Sabbath, which doesn't sound all that creative to me.

Many of the restrictions that Orthodox Jewry (and some Conservative Jews, though an increasingly vanishing group in Conservatism) holds to are largely designed to prevent the commandment from being broken at all. For example, the prohibition against eating chicken with dairy is designed to prevent accidental transgression.

Yep, that I'm clear on - it's just that, with your particular example, the prohibition is based on pagan worship practice (the ritual boiling of a kid in its mother's milk), and it's kind of difficult to accidentally worship something.

[Marta]

Lol... I guess it depends on what one is looking for. The info I had been looking at was way over my head in terms of explaining their mindset. I believe Marta was able to help me out. Doesn't mean I understand it ALL... I just got a clue into seeing where they're coming from.

and to guard the gates so that no one violates the Sabbath. These scriptural points were identical in their display of temperaments so that it was understandable among the people to "remember" what the Shabbath was and who it was for. As I asked this question, "The way Jesus ordered all of it out of the temple area - would have been what Nehemiah had ordered! As he warned the merchants of his day:

. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day

Shamor: To Observe


Most English speakers see the word "work" and think of it in the English sense of the word: physical labor and effort, or employment. Under this definition, lighting a match would be permitted, because it does not require effort, but a waiter would not be permitted to serve food on Shabbat, because that is his employment. Jewish law prohibits the former and permits the latter. Many English speakers therefore conclude that Jewish law does not make any sense.

The problem lies not in Jewish law, but in the definition that English speakers are using. The Torah does not prohibit "work" in the 20th century English sense of the word. The Torah prohibits "melachah" (Mem-Lamed-Alef-Kaf-Heh), which is usually translated as "work", but does not mean precisely the same thing as the English word. Before you can begin to understand the Shabbat restrictions, you must understand the word "melachah".

Melachah generally refers to the kind of work that is creative, or that exercises control or dominion over your environment. (In Other Words - Slavery, or a form of Slavery) The quintessential example of melachah is the work of creating the universe, which God ceased from doing on the seventh day. Note that God's work did not require a great physical effort: he spoke, and it was done.

Reference:

Read the Scripture: Nehemiah 13:15-22

Shabbat: Shamor: To Observe

[Marta]

Good point.

Title: This article discusses your comment

So what does one do if one cannot close the area with doors?

[Marta]

It's like Jesus said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. God gave us the sabbath as a GIFT not a burden.

Men created their own onerous rules to burden themselves, and then they come up with ways to cheat on those rules that God never intended in the first place.

[Marta]

nope still not getting your point. I never asked about the history of the subject. I was pointing out the legalistic and ridiculous idea in the first place and how the whole thing is nothing but a "cheat" in the first place.