Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

So when shall I be declared a terrorist and thrown into prison?

your lack of concern over the MCA puzzles me. Cheney and Bush' grab for power does not concern you at all? Even if they are good fellas, a Hitler might come along later . . . Even if you are going to be safe, aren't you concerned for others at all?

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

I'm not here to debate you on the merits of small government. Go do that in another thread. I am here to debate you about the military being evil.

The military is either in control of the government or under the control of the government. Either way, we need to determine whether the government is doing more good than bad. It doesn't matter what 'size' it is.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

I am in the military, you are not.

Why the hell should it matter? The police is becoming integrated into the military, so I have to fear interacting with the police.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

So why would I misrepresent something when I'm there observing it for myself? I carry a knife on me and not because I'm afraid of rape, but because a pocket knife is really useful in many situations and I have used it for several things. I really do doubt his story is true or an accurate representation of the entire military since I haven't heard about it till now.

I did some googling and found this:

a study of risk factors for rape in the military that included a national sample of 558 women veterans from all branches of the U.S. armed forces who were identified from the Department of Veterans Affairs women’s health care registries and who served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf (Sadler et al., 2003). Of these women approximately one third (30%, n = 151) had experienced an attempted or completed rape during military service.

http://www.internationalmta.org/Docu...5/2005107P.pdf I don’t suppose this will convince you, but I don’t care to do any more research.

Originally posted by Augustine2004

your lack of concern over the MCA puzzles me. Cheney and Bush' grab for power does not concern you at all? Even if they are good fellas, a Hitler might come along later . . .

Oh please. Stop with the fear mongering. Both Bush and Cheney have are out of office in a few months and haven't made any grabs to stay in office longer than that. Hitler did along with Stalin and Saddam. When you are forced to vote for Bush or die, you have a right to complain, but until that day comes... you are just fear mongering.

Even if you are going to be safe, aren't you concerned for others at all?

Do you have any proof that people are being beaten, tortured, and kill for disagreeing with Bush? If not... why should I believe you?

The military is either in control of the government or under the control of the government. Either way, we need to determine whether the government is doing more good than bad. It doesn't matter what 'size' it is.

Last I checked, the department of defense was ran by a civilian and the commander in chief of the US armed forces was the president (also a civilian). So it looks like to me the government is in control, unless you have proof it's not. Do you?

Why the hell should it matter? The police is becoming integrated into the military, so I have to fear interacting with the police.

I'd really love to see where you get this nonsense from. Do you have any evidence the police are integrated into the military or is this just more fear mongering and more of your nonsense that the military = pure evil?

I did some googling and found this:

a study of risk factors for rape in the military that included a national sample of 558 women veterans from all branches of the U.S. armed forces who were identified from the Department of Veterans Affairs women’s health care registries and who served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf (Sadler et al., 2003). Of these women approximately one third (30%, n = 151) had experienced an attempted or completed rape during military service.

http://www.internationalmta.org/Docu...5/2005107P.pdf I don’t suppose this will convince you, but I don’t care to do any more research.

I guess you missed the part of the paper where it specifically says the DoD is doing things to address the problem and where the UCMJ says it's illegal and if you do it, you are going to jail. Did you skip those parts because you were looking for a soundbite? I got news for you, I have never been sexually assaulted in my nearly 5 years of military service. In fact... I've had military men stand up for me when some civilian guy wants to give me a problem. Go ahead, keep reading soundbites and finding things you like that agrees with you. Fact is, I am just as likely to be a victim of sexual assault in my own home or in the walk to or from my car as I am on a military base.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Oh please. Stop with the fear mongering. Both Bush and Cheney have are out of office in a few months and haven't made any grabs to stay in office longer than that. Hitler did along with Stalin and Saddam. When you are forced to vote for Bush or die, you have a right to complain, but until that day comes... you are just fear mongering.

No I won't stop the 'fear mongering.' Aren't you impressed at all by the size of the stock market crashes? The financial markets? The bank bankruptcies?

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Do you have any proof that people are being beaten, tortured, and kill for disagreeing with Bush? If not... why should I believe you?

Well, there are the 'free speech zones' now. I was talking about the future. Why have MCA at all if the government is not going to use it?

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Last I checked, the department of defense was ran by a civilian and the commander in chief of the US armed forces was the president (also a civilian). So it looks like to me the government is in control, unless you have proof it's not. Do you?

Dodger or poor reader.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

I'd really love to see where you get this nonsense from. Do you have any evidence the police are integrated into the military or is this just more fear mongering and more of your nonsense that the military = pure evil?

Later.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

I guess you missed the part of the paper where it specifically says the DoD is doing things to address the problem and where the UCMJ says it's illegal and if you do it, you are going to jail.

Hardly new. Eisenhower said, hey stop raping the French women. World War II.[/quote]


Wired on the fusion of police and military http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...out-new-d.html (Guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free).

Suppose your superior orders you to come with weapons to arrest me and put me in prison for writing stuff like this. What would you do?

You may wonder what this reply have to do with your thrice-repeated “Bush is an idiot” rejoinder. Well, don’t worry too much about whatever relevancy it may have.

Something in the newspaper upset me. I feel disgusted. This is about Pakistan ousting Afghani refugees from a tribal region. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W...ow/3567416.cms (guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free)

Let me add another phrase from another report (Associated Press, guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free): “ . . . that their homes would be bulldozed to keep them from returning.”

I know you’re an AF mechanic, but what would you do if you were one of those bulldozer operators?


According to this video, Bush threatened martial law if Congress didn’t pass the bail-out bill. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/023374.html (Video guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free) If you were one of the persons ordered to enforce the martial law order, what would you do? What would you do if you were ordered to arrest that Congressman for making such an accusation?

Originally posted by Augustine2004

No I won't stop the 'fear mongering.' Aren't you impressed at all by the size of the stock market crashes? The financial markets? The bank bankruptcies?Well, there are the 'free speech zones' now. I was talking about the future. Why have MCA at all if the government is not going to use it?Dodger or poor reader.

What does the finacional institutions have to do with anything Bush did or are you going to blame Bush too on the fact banks made bad loans? Maybe if you actually made an argument instead of blaming Bush on everything (even though Bush does not make the laws, the liberal congress does), I might listen to you. Until than, doesn't expect me to take your serious.

Later.
Hardly new. Eisenhower said, hey stop raping the French women. World War II.

And as I recall, it was a crime in Eisenhower's day as well as today. Unless you want to

Wired on the fusion of police and military http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...out-new-d.html (Guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free).

Awww, more blog materal with fear mongoring added in. Got a news source like ABC News?

Suppose your superior orders you to come with weapons to arrest me and put me in prison for writing stuff like this. What would you do?

I am an AGE tech, not a cop so even if that happened; they wouldn't tell me to do it. Second, do you have any proof this has happened at all? Lew Rockwell continues to write bile about the military, yet... is he in jail?

You may wonder what this reply have to do with your thrice-repeated “Bush is an idiot” rejoinder. Well, don’t worry too much about whatever relevancy it may have.

Have I been sent away to be 're-educated' for calling Bush an idiot? Maybe if I called him some other bad names I'll be sent away? My point is... I can call Bush pretty much anything I want and yet... I havent' been sent to jail yet.

Something in the newspaper upset me. I feel disgusted. This is about Pakistan ousting Afghani refugees from a tribal region. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W...ow/3567416.cms (guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free)

Welcome to war, people become refugees all the time. Now do you have a real argument or perhaps you haven't noticed it isn't the US terrorizing people, it's the Talban. Humm... did you stop to think that if they actually cared about their country and not power, things would be doing great right now?

Let me add another phrase from another report (Associated Press, guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free): “ . . . that their homes would be bulldozed to keep them from returning.”

I know you’re an AF mechanic, but what would you do if you were one of those bulldozer operators?

Believe it or not.... bulldozer operators don't dig mass graves to burry people in. What do you think we do around here? Line up people who said bad things against Bush

According to this video, Bush threatened martial law if Congress didn’t pass the bail-out bill. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/023374.html (Video guaranteed 100% lewrockwell.com free) If you were one of the persons ordered to enforce the martial law order, what would you do? What would you do if you were ordered to arrest that Congressman for making such an accusation?

Martial law. HAHAHAHAHA! Can I see a real news source on this or did Lew Rockwell just make that up on the spot? Sorry, but never in US history has a Congressman been arrested by a president. Do you just believe whatever you are told without question as long as it's anti government? Give some real sources and not sources that are fear mongering. And just so you know, are you having a hard time understanding that even if the Military is ordered to enforce martial law and arrest congressmen, I wouldn't have anything to do with it because I'm not a cop?

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Martial law. HAHAHAHAHA! Can I see a real news source on this or did Lew Rockwell just make that up on the spot? Sorry, but never in US history has a Congressman been arrested by a president. Do you just believe whatever you are told without question as long as it's anti government? Give some real sources and not sources that are fear mongering. And just so you know, are you having a hard time understanding that even if the Military is ordered to enforce martial law and arrest congressmen, I wouldn't have anything to do with it because I'm not a cop?

You're either a dodger or a poor reader.

Why don't you study a bit of history? This is Wikipedia. Do you really believe Lew Rockwell would make something like that up and get away with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallandigham

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

What does the finacional institutions have to do with anything Bush did or are you going to blame Bush too on the fact banks made bad loans? Maybe if you actually made an argument instead of blaming Bush on everything (even though Bush does not make the laws, the liberal congress does), I might listen to you. Until than, doesn't expect me to take your serious.

How can I possibly make a case that you’ll look at if you refuse to start with the basics? Oh, well, once again, do you agree with these precepts:

Do all you agree to do.

Do not encroach on anyone or his/her property (including his/her body). [Richard Maybury]

Originally posted by Augustine2004

You're either a dodger or a poor reader.

Why don't you study a bit of history? This is Wikipedia. Do you really believe Lew Rockwell would make something like that up and get away with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallandigham

You did hear about this thing known as the civil war where these congressmen men were they enemy, right? You are also aware that after the civil war, these former rebel congressmen found their way right back to Washington DC, right? Nobody takes Lew Rockwell seriously, I'm still waiting for a news source that actually is credibile that says this. Got one?

How can I possibly make a case that you’ll look at if you refuse to start with the basics? Oh, well, once again, do you agree with these precepts:

Do all you agree to do.

Do not encroach on anyone or his/her property (including his/her body). [Richard Maybury]

Bush has nothing to do with how the bank runs it's company. Might want to go back and look over what the presidents job is. His job is to enforce laws made by congress, he can't make them pass a law that they don't want to. Again, I'd like to see you bring a repubable news source for your assertions. Got one?

This article first appeared in 1998 - ten years ago! - but it still offers insight into what may happen when the current bailout bites us. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/herbener1.html


LPO Terror seems to be such a poor reader that I’m not sure I can make any headway with her, but I will nevertheless make one more, possibly foolish, attempt. Suppose everyone follows the Maybury precepts. Would the world then need any sort of government at all?


Thomas J. DiLorezno points out that were the South to secede peacefully in 1861-1865, democracy would still have existed. Hence, he said, “government of the people, by the people, for the people” was ‘pure B.S.’ I hadn’t thought of that way before, but I agree. Government as practiced just about everywhere is a confidence game. That includes ‘democratic’ government.

Until the ‘Civil War Amendments’ were added to the Constitution, the Federal Government was supposed to be a constitutional republic government - not a ‘democratic’ one. Today, of course, there are no longer any constitutional limits on our government.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

You did hear about this thing known as the civil war where these congressmen men were they enemy, right? You are also aware that after the civil war, these former rebel congressmen found their way right back to Washington DC, right? Nobody takes Lew Rockwell seriously, I'm still waiting for a news source that actually is credibile that says this. Got one?



Bush has nothing to do with how the bank runs it's company. Might want to go back and look over what the presidents job is. His job is to enforce laws made by congress, he can't make them pass a law that they don't want to. Again, I'd like to see you bring a repubable news source for your assertions. Got one?

You reject lewrockwell.com as a reputable site. The MSM is essentially a government propaganda organ. So, I have nothing to offer that you would accept. That's why I wanted to go to the basics. Unfortunately, you seem to reject the Maybury precepts. Are you really a Christian? I doubt that.

Originally posted by Augustine2004

This article first appeared in 1998 - ten years ago! - but it still offers insight into what may happen when the current bailout bites us. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/herbener1.html

Sorry, but I only accept real news sources, not Lew Rockwell. Shoot, if he told me the sky was blue I'd have to look to be sure.

LPO Terror seems to be such a poor reader that I’m not sure I can make any headway with her, but I will nevertheless make one more, possibly foolish, attempt. Suppose everyone follows the Maybury precepts. Would the world then need any sort of government at all?

Nope, it's just you are a poor reader of history. It wasn't the north that started the Civil war at all, it was the south. Did that little fact from history class escape you? Did the little fact of putting people into slavery was wrong escape you as well?

Thomas J. DiLorezno points out that were the South to secede peacefully in 1861-1865, democracy would still have existed. Hence, he said, “government of the people, by the people, for the people” was ‘pure B.S.’ I hadn’t thought of that way before, but I agree. Government as practiced just about everywhere is a confidence game. That includes ‘democratic’ government.

Do you know your civil war history? It was the south that started the fight, they attacked the US government first and started the war to begin with. Another fact of the matter is, the south could not survive without the North. The south attacked the Union forces, not the Union. It is not the union that started the war a tall, it was the south. So keep pretending that your dumb articles are correct, but they ignore facts of history.

Until the ‘Civil War Amendments’ were added to the Constitution, the Federal Government was supposed to be a constitutional republic government - not a ‘democratic’ one. Today, of course, there are no longer any constitutional limits on our government.

Ummm, the Civil war Amendments are the amendments that give people their civil rights today and made slavery illegal in the US. Are you saying that it was bad to give people civil rights and to let people taken into slavery go free? You really need to stop getting your history from Lew Rockwell and start taking a real history class offered by a college.

Originally posted by Augustine2004

You reject lewrockwell.com as a reputable site. The MSM is essentially a government propaganda organ. So, I have nothing to offer that you would accept. That's why I wanted to go to the basics. Unfortunately, you seem to reject the Maybury precepts.

Yeah, anybody you disagree with your don't like is a government propaganda unit. Yep, the media is so much a government propaganda unit that they talk about anti-bush and anti-government stuff all the time. Please actually get yourself an education and actually provide a source that hasn't been caught lying. I have caught Lew Rockwell being dishonest before, why should I trust him?

Are you really a Christian? I doubt that.

Let me play this game!

You're not a Christian because you use Lew Rockwell as a source!

YAAAAA!!!! It's so easy using your methods of debate. All I want is a real source, not a blog, not a web site that I have caught in lies, a real reputable news source. Can you provide one reputable news source that says Bush threatened martial law or did your buddy (Lew Rockwell) just make that up like he made up his anti-military propaganda?

I'm puzzled whether you follow the news at all. My newspaper ran an Associated Press item today that the USA government is afraid Afghanistan is going down the drain. (Something like that).

Is there any 'real source' at all?


What lies? Please be specific. Dates, maybe URLs.

Anyway, LPO Terror claims we are succeeding in Afghanistan. I don’t know if she will accept Associated Press as a reputable source, but my newspaper ran an item reporting that Defense Secretary Robert Gates urged ‘southeastern’ European leaders to shift their military efforts from Iraq to there. Why, aren’t we succeeding?

The newspaper also reported (source not given) that the military acknowledged that an August 22 airstrike killed 33 Afghanistan civilians, ‘far more than previously acknowledged.’ Of course LPO Terror would dismiss my thinking that this is murder. Any time you use the Air Force, you have to expect stuff like that. Sparing use of the AF might be OK. But we use it way too often and too much.

LPO Terror never have said to my knowledge that she’d been to Afghanistan. She should ask permission to go there, not in a military capacity, but ‘to see for herself what things really look like there.’ I wouldn’t be surprised that permission would not be granted. Or, if it were, she would be extremely restricted in what she can see. For one thing, I’d be extremely surprised if she were allowed to see Kabul.

Originally posted by Augustine2004

I'm puzzled whether you follow the news at all. My newspaper ran an Associated Press item today that the USA government is afraid Afghanistan is going down the drain. (Something like that).

So much for your claims that the media is government propaganda, eh?

What lies? Please be specific. Dates, maybe URLs.

Proved it in this post dear, prove me wrong.

Anyway, LPO Terror claims we are succeeding in Afghanistan.

Ever been to Afghanistan or know anybody who is there?

I don’t know if she will accept Associated Press as a reputable source, but my newspaper ran an item reporting that Defense Secretary Robert Gates urged ‘southeastern’ European leaders to shift their military efforts from Iraq to there. Why, aren’t we succeeding?

Do you have reading problems? Again, what part of, "this is going to be a long war, but it is succeeding" are you having a hard time understanding? Know what one of our focus' is for the USAF? One of them is to win the war on terror, but most of them have to do with things that have little to nothing to do with this war.

The newspaper also reported (source not given) that the military acknowledged that an August 22 airstrike killed 33 Afghanistan civilians, ‘far more than previously acknowledged.’ Of course LPO Terror would dismiss my thinking that this is murder. Any time you use the Air Force, you have to expect stuff like that. Sparing use of the AF might be OK. But we use it way too often and too much.

Have you developed a system that is capable of never accidentally being used at the wrong time? Can your system always prevent civilians from being killed and always just hit military targets? If so, go to Washington and present your idea! I want to see it and I'm sure the Chief of Staff of the AF and the Sectary of the AF would too. Until you or somebody else develop a system that can do that, that is what we have and is an unfortunate reality of war.

LPO Terror never have said to my knowledge that she’d been to Afghanistan.

I know people who have. Do you?

She should ask permission to go there, not in a military capacity, but ‘to see for herself what things really look like there.’

Want me to ask a NCO that just got back from over there how it was like? He didn't describe any of the mass killings you seem to think is going on over there. Maybe he did that in his free time or do you think that we just dig mass graves on base and bury people who disagree with us?

I wouldn’t be surprised that permission would not be granted. Or, if it were, she would be extremely restricted in what she can see. For one thing, I’d be extremely surprised if she were allowed to see Kabul.

There is plenty of women in Kabul and there is also an Air base there that a friend of mine just came back from over there. I wasn't aware that he was going around blowing up people all day. I also have another friend who was in Baghdad, Iraq. Do you have any idea how things are like over there or do you just let Lew Rockwell tell you how things are when he's never been there himself?

This really makes me wonder, do you have any idea how the US military works or do you just think we train on base all day and train on the best ways to kill people?

Please explain why you think the Mideast war is succeeding particularly in Afghanistan.

Originally posted by Augustine2004

Please explain why you think the Mideast war is succeeding particularly in Afghanistan.

Is the Taliban capable of doing a major military campaign? Yes or no?

Question for you... what do you think we do in the military?

lilpixieofterror,

Thank you for your service to our country. I lost a son-in-law in 2002 in a training accident preparing for Iraq. He was in the army and stationed in Germany. My daughter has since remarried another military man and he is in his twelfth year of service.

I have several nephews serving right now also. My son-in-law has done two terms in Iraq already. What you have said in this thread is true. Thank you for standing up for our men and women in uniform.

May God be with you and those you serve alongside. We, our church, pray for our troops every week.

Augustine. you really need to come out of your underground bunker and quit feeding your mind all this fear and conspiracy crap. It is unhealthy for your mind and will shorten your lifespan. Maybe chickenlittle would have been a more appropriate name to choose?

pastorT