On what Jewish date was that?

[37818]

". . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . ." -- Mark 14:12.

[arnoldo]

Apparently, the jewish festival of unleavened bread and passover were used interchangeably by the gospel writers.

Luke 22:1 . . . Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

[37818]

Apparently, the jewish festival of unleavened bread and passover were used interchangeably by the gospel writers.

Luke 22:1 . . . Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

The feast of unleavened began on the 15th of Nisan through 21st. The evening of the 15th is when the Jews eat the Passover. The evening precedes the day.

[Truthseeker]

The evening precedes the day.

Confusing. Don't you mean sundown? The word "evening" is a span of time, not a moment, right?

[37818]

Confusing. Don't you mean sundown? The word "evening" is a span of time, not a moment, right?

Technically, the word translated "evening" means "late." I understand it being used meaning past sun down in the contexts.
". . . And at even, when the sun did set, . . ." -- Mark 1:32. In any rate it denotes the ending of the current day and the beginning of the next in Jewish reckoning. The Jews would eat the Passover the evening of the 15th of Nisan.

[37818]

If Mark 14:12 was on the 14h of Nisan that would mean Jesus and his disciples eat the Passover in the evening of the 15th of Nisan (Mark 14:16-18). Thus making the day of His crucifixion on the 15th.

[Faber]

If Mark 14:12 was on the 14h of Nisan that would mean Jesus and his disciples eat the Passover in the evening of the 15th of Nisan (Mark 14:16-18). Thus making the day of His crucifixion on the 15th.

What's confusing to Bible Scholars is that Jesus and the disciples held their seder at least one day before the Jewish leaders did. Possibly as early as Tuesday evening after sunset (Which would be Wednesday, 12 Nisan). Some groups, including the Essenes and those adhering to the Jubilee calendar, always celebrated the Passover feast Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning every year. It probably helped alleviate the crowds on the day of the Passover sacrifices.

[37818]

What's confusing to Bible Scholars is that Jesus and the disciples held their seder at least one day before the Jewish leaders did. Possibly as early as Tuesday evening after sunset (Which would be Wednesday, 12 Nisan). Some groups, including the Essenes and those adhering to the Jubilee calendar, always celebrated the Passover feast Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning every year. It probably helped alleviate the crowds on the day of the Passover sacrifices.

On what basis? What is the earliest citation for this?

[Faber]

Let me first make it clear, the writings of the early church fathers are not inspired Scripture. Not only that, but some of the early writings intentionally push false teachings. But these writings contain the beliefs and traditions of the earliest church.

Then our Lord said unto us, "Verily I say unto you, yet a little while, and ye shall leave Me, for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of His flock shall be scattered." And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and delivered up our Lord Jesus. But this was on Wednesday, for when we had eaten the Passover on Tuesday in the evening, we went out to the Mount of Olives, and in the night they took our Lord Jesus; and on the next day, which was Wednesday, He remained in prison in the house of Cepha the High Priest. In that day the chiefs of the people were assembled, and they took counsel together against Him. Again, the next day, which was Thursday, they brought Him to Pilate the governor, and again He remained in prison with Pilate, in the night after Thursday. And when it dawned on Friday, they accused Him much before Pilate, yet they could show nothing true, but they brought false witness against Him. And they asked Him from Pilate, to put Him to death, and they crucified Him on Friday. Didascalia Apostolorum, trans. by Margaret Dunlop Gibson M.R.A.S.; LL.D. (St Andrews); The Didascalia Apostolorum in English. (London; C. J. Clay and Sons; Cambridge University Press Warehouse; Ave Maria Lane; 1903), 94. Cepha is Caiaphas.)

But Jesus was arrested late on that same third day, which was the nighttime of the eleventh of the month, the sixteenth before the Kalends of April. The dawning of the fourth day of the week was the nighttime of the [Jewish] twelfth day of the month, the fifteenth before the Kalends of April. The daytime of the thirteenth day of the month was the fifth day of the week, but the [ensuing] nighttime was the fourteenth of the month, the fourteenth before the Kalends of April. The daytime of the fourteenth of the month was the eve of the Sabbath, the thirteenth before the Kalends of April. The daytime of the fifteenth of the month was the Sabbath, the twelfth before the Kalends of April. (Panarion, Section IV, series 51,26,3 (Against the sect which does not accept the Gospel according to John, and his Revelation). Epiphanius, Panarion, trans. by Frank Williams, The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Books II and III (Sections 47-80, De Fide), (Nag Hammadi and Manichaean Studies). (Leiden, The Netherlands: E.J. Brill, 1994), 57-58.)

[Faber]

From some commentaries:

The day is breaking, which constitutes, according to John (prima facie), the 14th of Nisan, in the evening of which and commencement of the 15th the Passover would be killed. According to the synoptists, that Passover meal was already over, and the first great day of the feast had commenced - the day of convocation, with sabbatic functions and duties. The statements are apparently in hopeless variance. Many emphasize, exaggerate, and declare insoluble the contradiction, repudiating either the authority of John or that of the synoptists. Meyer and Lucke give their verdict with John, the eye-witness, as against the synoptic tradition. Strauss and Keim, who also hold the invincible discrepancy, lift the synoptic account to a comparatively high state of historic validity, and thereby discredit the authenticity of the Fourth Gospel. (The Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 17 (Gospel of John). ~1889; edited by H.D.M. Spence and Joseph S. Exell; citing Heinrich Meyer and Friedrich Lucke)

There is here a contradiction for which there is no compromise solution. Either the Synoptic gospels are correct or John is. Scholars are much divided. But it seems most likely that the Synoptics are correct. . . There is no full explanation of this obvious discrepancy; but this seems to us the best. (William Barclay, The Daily Study Bible Series. The Gospel of John, Volume 2. (Westminster: John Knox Press, 1975), 293.)

[I]The Greek Testament, Vol. 1, The Four Gospels. (London: Rivingtons, Waterloo Place; & J. Deighton, Cambridge; 1849), 262.)

The IVP New Testament Commentary Series, John. (Westmont, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1999), 437-8.)

[Faber]

Among the thousands of fragments found in the caves around Qumran, one fragment in particular, given the designation 4Q321, gives more information on the calendar used by the Essenes. It contains twelve months, unnamed but referred to as the first month, the second month, etc. The third, sixth, ninth and twelfth months have 31 days; the other months have 30 days. 364 days total; 52 weeks. The first month corresponds roughly with Nisan, the first month of the Lunar Calendar. It begins every year on a Tuesday evening at sunset. The first day of the first month thus falls on Wednesday every year. Passover is on the 15th day of the first month, also beginning on Tuesday at sunset and continuing to Wednesday at sunset. Waiving of the barley sheaves, instead of being the Sunday immediately after Passover, is on Sunday, the 26th day of the first month, eleven days after Passover. The Festival of the First Fruits is on Sunday, the 15th day of the third month, sixty days after Passover. The Feast of Trumpets is on Wednesday, the first day of the seventh month. The Day of Atonement is on Friday, the 10th day of the seventh month. The Feast of Tabernacles is eight days, beginning on Wednesday, the 15 day of the seventh month, and continuing to the following Wednesday. It was intended to be a perpetual calendar, with none of the feasts days (except the fourth day of Tabernacles) falling on the Sabbath.

Other documents from the caves made reference to the Jubilee calendar. 4Q320 and 4Q328 give the schedule for the several orders of priests for their weekly service in the temple in accordance with the Jubilee calendar. 4Q326 lists the days of the Sabbaths, Passover and other feast days.

Annie Jaubert (1912-1980) was a French Bible scholar known for her research on the calendrical teachings of the Hebrew Bible and other ancient Hebrew literature. She offered a solution to the conflicting chronologies of the Passover in the four Gospels.

In conclusion: it is certain that, at the beginning of the first century, A.D., there existed two liturgical calendars. In one of these the feasts were assigned to days of the lunar month; this was the official calendar, about which we can find information in later rabbinical Judaism. In the second, the feasts always fell on fixed days of the week. The character of this calendar may now be discovered in contemporary Jewish sources. It is witnessed only in its Jubilees-Qumran type; but it is probable that it also existed in modified forms which could have either preserved an intermediary stage of the calendar's development or attempted a certain compromise with the official reckoning. (Annie Jaubert; The Date of the Last Supper. Translated by Isaac Rafferty. (Staten Island, NY: Alba House, 1965), 52.)

[37818]

Thank you Faber

arnoldo rightly cited Luke:

Luke 22:1 . . . Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

My study of John and the Law does not lead me to believe that he taught differently than the synoptic accounts. Rather John has been commonly misinterpreted.

". . . And it was the preparation of the passover, . . ." -- John 19:14.

". . . And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. In the first day [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]: But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire [for] a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: And their meat offering [shall be of] flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram; A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs: And one goat [for] a sin offering, to make an atonement for you." -- Numbers 28:17-22.

". . . And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock [for] a sin offering. And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily [for] a sin offering." -- Ezekiel 45:22-23. Which is similar to Numbers as cited.

So what I see is that during the feast which by Jesus' day was also called the Passover, a preparation would would be done each day of the feast. So no conflict need be supposed. I stumbled on to this over 40 years ago.

[Truthseeker]

Technically, the word translated "evening" means "late." I understand it being used meaning past sun down in the contexts.
". . . And at even, when the sun did set, . . ." -- Mark 1:32. In any rate it denotes the ending of the current day and the beginning of the next in Jewish reckoning. The Jews would eat the Passover the evening of the 15th of Nisan.

Let me make sure I have got everything straight now. Suppose the sun set at 6PM as we moderns reckon time. Then 7PM would be an evening time according to the Jews' time-reckoning.

[Faber]

It's a little more complicated. For example, the evening tamid sacrifice took place around 3:00 PM. In a sense, the evening is when the sun was going down, which included late afternoon.

The daytime was divided into twelve hours, regardless of how long the day was. So we're talking mid-afternoon.

But in another sense, terms like Exodus 12:6, "in the evening" (KJV) or "at twilight" (NASB) are translations of "beyn ha'arbayim", literally "between the evenings." This is interpreted to mean between the actual sunset and the point where there is no longer any light in the sky.

[Truthseeker]

It's a little more complicated. For example, the evening tamid sacrifice took place around 3:00 PM. In a sense, the evening is when the sun was going down, which included late afternoon.

The daytime was divided into twelve hours, regardless of how long the day was. So we're talking mid-afternoon.

But in another sense, terms like Exodus 12:6, "in the evening" (KJV) or "at twilight" (NASB) are translations of "beyn ha'arbayim", literally "between the evenings." This is interpreted to mean between the actual sunset and the point where there is no longer any light in the sky.

1) I forgot that the Jews were apt to be loose compared to us, who likes things to be exact.

2) Your last sentence is not clear. By "actual sunset" I don't think you mean the sun's astronomical position (90 degrees west azimuth from high noon). From a viewpoint looking west, the sun appears to be higher than its astronomical position because of atmospheric refraction (air bending the sunlight toward the earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
).

"No longer any light in the sky" -- I think you mean sunlight in the sky.