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  • #76
    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
    And praise the Lord you are not like the rest of men, those unrighteous.
    You are an ass. That was not my point at all.

    Tassman (or whomever, I didn't think to look to see exactly whom made the post) phrased it as a collective responsibility as opposed to a responsibility of the individual churches.
    No idiot, Tass was suggesting that if we didn't support your collectivism that we did not care for the poor. That was a lie...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
      And praise the Lord you are not like the rest of men, those unrighteous.


      Tassman (or whomever, I didn't think to look to see exactly whom made the post) phrased it as a collective responsibility as opposed to a responsibility of the individual churches.
      Yes it is a "collective responsibility" to help those in need. My point was in light of seer's objections to "using one's tax dollars paying for another person's food, housing, health care" (#60) whilst apparently having no objection to the very same "tax dollars" helping the super-rich pay a lower tax rate than bottom 50%.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post




        Yes it is a "collective responsibility" to help those in need. My point was in light of seer's objections to "using one's tax dollars paying for another person's food, housing, health care" (#60) whilst apparently having no objection to the very same "tax dollars" helping the super-rich pay a lower tax rate than bottom 50%.
        I know. Seer accepts a commonly held view, the corporal works of mercy are only an individual responsibility (either the individual person, individual church, or individual group), and the responsibility becomes diluted when viewed from a societal perspective.

        I am quite pleased when an atheist from Sydney accepts a main idea from scripture, surprised when it is opposed by a Christian from America.

        Maybe there is a glimmer of hope for you and your atheist's soul!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by simplicio View Post

          I am quite pleased when an atheist from Sydney accepts a main idea from scripture, surprised when it is opposed by a Christian from America.
          Government welfare is main idea in Scripture? References.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            You are an ass. That was not my point at all.



            No idiot, Tass was suggesting that if we didn't support your collectivism that we did not care for the poor. That was a lie...
            Yes, I do believe that was not your point at all. However, it is quite common to counter such criticisms with a response noting actions the Christian is personally involved in.

            Tass was indirectly bringing in the question of how much care for the poor is needed. There might be a thousand points of light, but how many points of light are needed? Volunteerism is laudable. But the fact remains that nations are judged, as well as individuals.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              Tass was indirectly bringing in the question of how much care for the poor is needed. There might be a thousand points of light, but how many points of light are needed? Volunteerism is laudable. But the fact remains that nations are judged, as well as individuals.
              Judged? You mean like for the deaths of 50 million unborn? Gay marriage? No fault divorce? The sexual revolution, rampant fornication? You are correct, we are screwed...
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Judged? You mean like for the deaths of 50 million unborn? Gay marriage? No fault divorce? The sexual revolution, rampant fornication? You are correct, we are screwed...
                The death of the unborn is a scandal of holocaust proportions. The 'liberal' and secularized European countries do put a bar on abortions past a certain number of weeks (22); the very religious US is in worse shape.

                I wonder if St John had wrote today if he would include a scathing message the church in America.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  The death of the unborn is a scandal of holocaust proportions.
                  Is it too hard for God to have foreknowledge and know if a fetus would be aborted and refrain from putting a soul in it if that is going to happen? And if that's too hard, is it too hard for him to wait til after the abortion and then stick the soul of an aborted fetus into a newly conceived fetus?

                  I note in the natural course of events quite aside from any human intervention, slightly over 50% of fetuses die in the womb rather than develop into viable offspring, so natural processes far exceed any possible activity of humanity in terms of creating abortions. Seems strange that God's arranged a world in which this happens so regularly if it's such a problem.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Judged? You mean like for the deaths of 50 million unborn? Gay marriage? No fault divorce? The sexual revolution, rampant fornication? You are correct, we are screwed...
                    Rather than the fake sins you list, try things like having millions of people dying from healthcare you're not providing, millions of homeless on the streets, immigrants terrorized and put into cages and children separated from their families, overthrowing democratic governments around the world because you don't like their policies, running torture programs, invading countries that didn't attack you and killing hundreds of thousands of people, refusing to act on climate change that will impact our grandchildren all around the world, etc.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Rather than the fake sins you list, try things like having millions of people dying from healthcare you're not providing, millions of homeless on the streets, immigrants terrorized and put into cages and children separated from their families, overthrowing democratic governments around the world because you don't like their policies, running torture programs, invading countries that didn't attack you and killing hundreds of thousands of people, refusing to act on climate change that will impact our grandchildren all around the world, etc.
                      Stop whining, anyone can go to the Emergency room, and if you are poor enough you can get on Title19. So millions of people are not dying - except in abortion clinics. And your country is doing badly when it comes to reducing emissions:https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12294889
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        anyone can go to the Emergency room, and if you are poor enough you can get on Title19. So millions of people are not dying
                        Plenty of long-term conditions like cancer etc aren't suseptible to emergency room treatment and need ongoing care over a lengthy period. This results in a lot of people dying in the US due to lack of healthcare who would have survived if they'd lived in other Western countries.

                        And your country is doing badly when it comes to reducing emissions:https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12294889
                        NZ currently isn't yet on track to meet its ambitious goals, but there is a lot of action occurring with regard to getting on track.

                        Meanwhile the US is failing hard and not even trying not to fail.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Plenty of long-term conditions like cancer etc aren't suseptible to emergency room treatment and need ongoing care over a lengthy period. This results in a lot of people dying in the US due to lack of healthcare who would have survived if they'd lived in other Western countries.
                          Nonsense, those people can get Title19 as my ex-wife did.


                          Meanwhile the US is failing hard and not even trying not to fail.
                          Thankfully because of fracking and natural gas we are below the early 2000s levels. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...354#post715354
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Is it too hard for God to have foreknowledge and know if a fetus would be aborted and refrain from putting a soul in it if that is going to happen? And if that's too hard, is it too hard for him to wait til after the abortion and then stick the soul of an aborted fetus into a newly conceived fetus?

                            I note in the natural course of events quite aside from any human intervention, slightly over 50% of fetuses die in the womb rather than develop into viable offspring, so natural processes far exceed any possible activity of humanity in terms of creating abortions. Seems strange that God's arranged a world in which this happens so regularly if it's such a problem.
                            Do you mean that God slaughters millions of innocent little babies in the womb?
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Do you mean that God slaughters millions of innocent little babies in the womb?
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Is it too hard for God to have foreknowledge and know if a fetus would be aborted and refrain from putting a soul in it if that is going to happen? And if that's too hard, is it too hard for him to wait til after the abortion and then stick the soul of an aborted fetus into a newly conceived fetus?

                              I note in the natural course of events quite aside from any human intervention, slightly over 50% of fetuses die in the womb rather than develop into viable offspring, so natural processes far exceed any possible activity of humanity in terms of creating abortions. Seems strange that God's arranged a world in which this happens so regularly if it's such a problem.
                              So, are both of you atheists insisting that you know that there is a soul present at conception?

                              That is one of the most avoided things among pro life, anti-abortion Christians. One the one hand we insist that ensoulment occurs at the moment of conception, and person hood is tied to the existence of the soul (same soul of Jesus who is our Savior).

                              But how many babies die without intervention?

                              How many babies die as the result of the pill, which obstructs implantation? The pill is a hormone pill.

                              How many babies die as the result of chemical abortion? The number of surgical abortions are dropping, which raises the question of how much of the drop is attributable to the hormones given to kill the baby?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                So, are both of you atheists insisting that you know that there is a soul present at conception?
                                No, there sinply going by your assumption and wondering if that be the case why does god allow them to die naturally in the womb.
                                That is one of the most avoided things among pro life, anti-abortion Christians. One the one hand we insist that ensoulment occurs at the moment of conception, and person hood is tied to the existence of the soul (same soul of Jesus who is our Savior).
                                So the question then is why does god allow them to die naturally in the womb?
                                But how many babies die without intervention?
                                A lot.
                                How many babies die as the result of the pill, which obstructs implantation? The pill is a hormone pill.

                                How many babies die as the result of chemical abortion? The number of surgical abortions are dropping, which raises the question of how much of the drop is attributable to the hormones given to kill the baby?
                                I believe the question was why does god allow so many die naturally in the womb?

                                Comment

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