Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
    ...you are attempting to ‘explain away’ why you are NOT following God’s commands in the way he demanded.
    No, I'm explaining to you that governments still generally follow this biblical ethic when it comes to the most troublesome elements of society.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      There is no explaining away needed what so ever. As far as I know Mountain Man is not a Jew subject to Old Covenant obligations. God never demanded that gentiles follow the Law of Moses unless they specifically asked to become part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people.
      Except that the OT has been used by Christians when convenient in order to reinforce the values of the day and disregarded when not, e.g. slavery, witch-killing, denying female emancipation and LGBT rights.

      The Dominionists of the ilk of Ted Cruz or Mike Pence wouldn’t hesitate. They hold that divine law, including the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed to the letter, by modern Christians.

      The Quiverfull Movement, as represented by the Duggar family and many others, base their program on Psalm 127: “Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them”.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Except that the OT has been used by Christians when convenient in order to reinforce the values of the day and disregarded when not, e.g. slavery, witch-killing, denying female emancipation and LGBT rights.

        The Dominionists of the ilk of Ted Cruz or Mike Pence wouldn’t hesitate. They hold that divine law, including the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed to the letter, by modern Christians.

        The Quiverfull Movement, as represented by the Duggar family and many others, base their program on Psalm 127: “Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them”.
        And all of this demonstrates that MM is trying to "explain away" anything at all in what way?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          And all of this demonstrates that MM is trying to "explain away" anything at all in what way?
          My post was in response to your comment: "God never demanded that gentiles follow the Law of Moses unless they specifically asked to become part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people." MM was in fact demonstrating that he was following the "ethic" of the OT Law albeit in a non-literal way.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            My post was in response to your comment: "God never demanded that gentiles follow the Law of Moses unless they specifically asked to become part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people." MM was in fact demonstrating that he was following the "ethic" of the OT Law albeit in a non-literal way.
            I know what your post was in response to, given that I wrote the post you were responding to. What I don't get is how you would think that your post was a coherent response to anything I wrote. Giving examples of Christians who feel/felt the need to follow every law and command in the Old Testament to the very letter does not in any way show that MM is trying to explain away anything at all. What matters is what the Bible says (and doesn't say) about the issue, not what whatever group of people whose views on what the Bible teaches is convenient for whatever agenda you're currently pushing are saying. And to make the distinction between what the Bible is actually saying versus what people claim it's saying you'll actually have to dive into the text itself.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              Giving examples of Christians who feel/felt the need to follow every law and command in the Old Testament to the very letter does not in any way show that MM is trying to explain away anything at all.
              That is precisely what it is showing MM to be doing. He is claiming to follow OT Law re stoning bad people to death by arguing that he still follows that law (something you say he shouldn’t do because he is “not part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people”) by locking them up rather than stoning them to death. In short, he is "explaining away" God’s unacceptably brutal commandment by modifying it to suit modern-day standards of punishment.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                That is precisely what it is showing MM to be doing. He is claiming to follow OT Law re stoning bad people to death by arguing that he still follows that law (something you say he shouldn’t do because he is “not part of the covenant between God and the Jewish people”) by locking them up rather than stoning them to death.


                No, that's not what he's doing at all.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post

                  No, that's not what he's doing at all.
                  Whatever.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Whatever.


                    MM never claimed to be personally following the biblical ethic behind the death penalty, like you're claiming he was doing.


                    I'm the one who should be sighing here.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Just as it is “good and right” for our society to NOT to kill witches, own slaves, segregate blacks, deny female emancipation and deny LGBT rights. It’s just as subjective. It’s just the social mores of the day evolving and scripture being adjusted to justify them...as always.
                      So your objection to what happened in the bible is pure nonsense according to your own standards.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        So your objection to what happened in the bible is pure nonsense according to your own standards.
                        My “standards” are dictated by community values and these values change over time. However, YOUR standards are dictated by ‘divinely revealed’ objective morality, which are NOT supposed to change; they are eternal. This makes it a tad awkward for you when the community values change.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          My “standards” are dictated by community values and these values change over time. However, YOUR standards are dictated by ‘divinely revealed’ objective morality, which are NOT supposed to change; they are eternal. This makes it a tad awkward for you when the community values change.
                          So your standards are merely social preferences that can change and mean nothing ultimately. They are like fashion. Today we like straight legged bluejeans and in the 1970s they liked bell bottoms. Neither is better or worse than the other, so if you were to claim that people who owned slave were evil scum, it would make as much sense as you claiming that people who wore bell bottoms were evil scum.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            So your standards are merely social preferences that can change and mean nothing ultimately. They are like fashion. Today we like straight legged bluejeans and in the 1970s they liked bell bottoms. Neither is better or worse than the other, so if you were to claim that people who owned slave were evil scum, it would make as much sense as you claiming that people who wore bell bottoms were evil scum.
                            Wrong. I think you guys are being willfully ignorant. Morals are not like fashion where neither is better or worse, they are like evolution wherein what is better survives. That doesn't make morals absolute in a supernatural sense. There is nothing about behaviors best suited for social survival that necessitates a divine source.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Wrong. I think you guys are being willfully ignorant. Morals are not like fashion where neither is better or worse, they are like evolution wherein what is better survives. That doesn't make morals absolute in a supernatural sense. There is nothing about behaviors best suited for social survival that necessitates a divine source.
                              Why are you answering for Tassman, Jimothy? You and he don't have the same view of morals. You believe in some objective value you call "better" - Tassman believes only in changing morals that flow with society, none of which are better or worse than any other. So how about you stick to the posts where I tell you how stupid you are for believing in an objective standard of "good" while claiming morals are relative, and not butt in when I am talking to Tassman who at least has a coherant view of morality, even though it is wrong?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Why are you answering for Tassman, Jimothy? You and he don't have the same view of morals. You believe in some objective value you call "better" - Tassman believes only in changing morals that flow with society, none of which are better or worse than any other. So how about you stick to the posts where I tell you how stupid you are for believing in an objective standard of "good" while claiming morals are relative, and not butt in when I am talking to Tassman who at least has a coherant view of morality, even though it is wrong?
                                And those changing morals which flow with society, change with the times, don't just change willy nilly, they change for "good reasons".

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                6 responses
                                47 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                231 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                24 responses
                                104 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                32 responses
                                176 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                310 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X