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  • Blatant contradictions are now called "nuance".

    1) Conservatives churches foster abuse towards women.
    2) Men who regularly attend conservative churches are the least likely to be abusive because they receive "regular exposure to balanced biblical teaching and preaching on family life".

    Both of these statements cannot be true.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Blatant contradictions are now called "nuance".

      1) Conservatives churches foster abuse towards women.
      2) Men who regularly attend conservative churches are the least likely to be abusive because they receive "regular exposure to balanced biblical teaching and preaching on family life".

      Both of these statements cannot be true.
      But then again, I never said 1) above did I? I said:

      Unfortunately, when it comes to the abuse of women, many conservative churches adopt policies and attitudes that encourage it rather than deter it.

      A policy can be adopted that has an UNINTENDED affect.

      Your denial of the known detrimental effect of Patriarchical culture sheds a strong spotlight on the insidious nature of the problem.
      Your unwillingness to acknowledge that effect exists even in the church in its effect on nominal attendees sheds a strong spotlight on the insidious nature of the problem.

      I am not talking about the church intentionally teaching things that encourage the abuse of women. I am talking about an underlying cultural model which on its own encourages abuse and which has been shown to encourage abuse over and over again. In the church that effect exists just like it does everywhere else. But, if a person follows all the teaching on this issue and fully understand all the scripture teaches on this issue, that effect is mitigated. Nevertheless, the underlying cultural model still has that effect when the mitigating teaching is neglected, distorted, or not given. And unfortunately, that happens far more often than you are willing to admit. As I have discussed and as the paper discusses.

      Nominal attendees of Conservative Churches have the HIGHEST abuse rates in the study I mentioned above. That is the effect of the underlying patriarchical model adhered to most stringently by Conservative Churches.

      Nominal attendees of congregations are often no small percentage of the people on the roll. You know that.

      Not to put too fine a point on it: what these stats show, in no uncertain terms, is that a woman married to a controlling, potentially abusive man is better off if he does not attend church at all than if he sporadically attends a conservative protestant church.
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-06-2020, 04:58 PM.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        He originally claimed that conservative churches foster abuse towards women.
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        I am still saying it.
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        1) Conservatives churches foster abuse towards women.
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        I never said 1) above did I?
        Is this more of your "nuance"?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Is this more of your "nuance"?
          Now you are just being an idiot and are pretending the fact I didn't meticulously correct you each and every time you misquoted me means something.

          Do you have a conscience MM?
          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-06-2020, 05:15 PM.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            But then again, I never said 1) above did I? I said: .................
            Do you think the content of your argument really matters here?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              Do you think the content of your argument really matters here?
              Clearly it does not.

              Do you have anything you'd like to add? Most of the time you have useful things to say and right about now I'd love to have some sort of serious and thoughtful feedback to what I've put up so far.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Clearly it does not.

                Do you have anything you'd like to add? Most of the time you have useful things to say and right about now I'd love to have some sort of serious and thoughtful feedback to what I've put up so far.
                “I want people to agree with me and admire my brilliance!”

                That sounds more accurate.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Now you are just being an idiot and are pretending the fact I didn't meticulously correct you each and every time you misquoted me means something.
                  I do appreciate how you've gone from "conservative churches encourage abuse" to "nominal church goers are more likely to be abusive" which is a completely different issue. That's like blaming schools when truant students get bad grades.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I do appreciate how you've gone from "conservative churches encourage abuse" to "nominal church goers are more likely to be abusive" which is a completely different issue. That's like blaming schools when truant students get bad grades.
                    Your feigned ignorance and lack of concern over libel is getting old. If you don't stop misquoting me, I'll report you for lying. Quote my actual statement or don't reference 'what I said' at all.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-06-2020, 05:40 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Your feigned ignorance and lack of concern over libel is getting old. If you don't stop misquoting me, I'll report you for lying. Quote my actual statement or don't reference 'what I said' at all.
                      I do appreciate how you've gone from "conservative churches encourage abuse" "many conservative churches adopt policies and attitudes that encourage [abuse]" to "nominal church goers are more likely to be abusive" "nominal attendees of Conservative Churches have the HIGHEST abuse rates" which is a completely different issue. That's like blaming schools when truant students get bad grades.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        I do appreciate how you've gone from "conservative churches encourage abuse" "many conservative churches adopt policies and attitudes that encourage [abuse]" to "nominal church goers are more likely to be abusive" "nominal attendees of Conservative Churches have the HIGHEST abuse rates" which is a completely different issue. That's like blaming schools when truant students get bad grades.
                        No, they are not, and I haven't gone from one to the other. They are, in fact not mutually exclusive statements and stand as they are simultaneously correct.

                        The second is, in fact, the consequence of the first.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          No, they are not, and I haven't gone from one to the other. They are, in fact not mutually exclusive statements and stand as they are simultaneously correct.

                          The second is, in fact, the consequence of the first.
                          No it isn’t, but have you tried tapping your heels together three times while repeating that? Maybe that might make it true!
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            No it isn’t, but have you tried tapping your heels together three times while repeating that? Maybe that might make it true!
                            I'm trying to figure out how it's the fault of the church when a nominal attendee doesn't receive the same, balanced teaching as a regular attendee.

                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              I'm trying to figure out how it's the fault of the church when a nominal attendee doesn't receive the same, balanced teaching as a regular attendee.

                              Wow - that's the simple part. It's been explained a bunch of times too. That is what the underlying patriarchal culture does unless the teaching that mitigates its effect is not merely taught but emphasized. It's like giving someone a powerful blue laser but not telling them about the dangers of looking a laser light without protective goggles. As long as you use the goggles, everything is fine. But without them, you can go blind. And you'd better make sure everyone you invite for a demo has them too.

                              It's there in the stats MM. Nominal Conservative Church Goers have the highest abuse rates. They get (or got in the past) the patriarchal culture, but they don't get the required emphasis on the teaching that mitigates its effect.

                              How can conservative churches avoid that consequence? Move away from the strong patriarchal emphasis. Allow women a place - adopt a more egalitarian approach.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Wow - that's the simple part. It's been explained a bunch of times too. That is what the underlying patriarchal culture does unless the teaching that mitigates its effect is not merely taught but emphasized. It's like giving someone a powerful blue laser but not telling them about the dangers of looking a laser light without protective goggles. As long as you use the goggles, everything is fine. But without them, you can go blind. And you'd better make sure everyone you invite for a demo has them too.

                                It's there in the stats MM. Nominal Conservative Church Goers have the highest abuse rates. They get (or got in the past) the patriarchal culture, but they don't get the required emphasis on the teaching that mitigates its effect.

                                How can conservative churches avoid that consequence? Move away from the strong patriarchal emphasis. Allow women a place - adopt a more egalitarian approach.
                                That’s some twisting you have to produce, to invent that insanity.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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