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Let's stop the nonsense about federal agents in Portland

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  • Let's stop the nonsense about federal agents in Portland

    Let's stop the nonsense about federal agents in Portland

    Pretty much what I've been saying all along.

    There have been conflicting reports about federal agents in camouflage and unmarked vehicles detaining protesters in Portland, Ore., without cause. This comes on the heels of scenes of federal officers, outfitted in blue shirts and tactical vests but no official patches or badges, protecting facilities in Washington, D.C., in June. The events have called into question the role of federal law enforcement and how it intersects with traditional policing.

    While many federal law enforcement agencies are investigative in nature and have special agents, not police officers, some do have a more traditional police role. The Secret Service Uniformed Division has been in operation since 1922 and provides traditional law enforcement services around the White House and foreign embassies in the U.S. Its agents conduct operations around the president and other dignitaries, including K-9, explosive ordnance disposal, and counter-assault teams. The Capitol Police is approximately 1,500 police officers strong and functions much like a traditional police department. Many other agencies have uniformed police officers as well, including the FBI, whose police officers protect the agency’s headquarters, FBI Academy in Quantico, Va., and its enormous field offices in Washington and New York.

    For all the controversy that surrounds J. Edgar Hoover today, the longtime FBI director, who died nearly a half-century ago, strongly opposed the notion of establishing a national police force. It was a primary motive for Hoover’s setting up the FBI National Academy (FBINA) in 1935. Not to be confused with the academy that trains new FBI special agents, the FBINA created the first executive training for police supervisors, some of whom were the only members of their departments to receive any formal training long ago. Today, the FBINA remains the gold standard for senior police officers who lead departments across the country and the world.

    But recent videos of federal agents in Portland detaining suspects has sparked debate, and critics of President Trump and Attorney General William Barr are making analogies to secret military operations and private armies. Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) said “they are snatching people off the street with no underlying justification.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) referred to federal agents in Portland as “Stormtroopers” in a tweet. Said Juan Chavez, director of the civil rights project at the Oregon Justice Resource Center: “It’s like stop and frisk meets Guantanamo Bay.” This is nonsense.

    The federal building and courthouse in Portland have been under assault by demonstrators for more than two weeks. In addition to the “mere graffiti” that opponents of the federal response have pointed to, there has been substantial damage to windows and doors; protesters have attempted to set fire to the facility; and federal agents attempting to stop the violence have been assaulted while the protestors blind them with laser lights. Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler has sided with the protesters and told Portland police to back down. Last week he told the acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf to send the federal agents away.

    While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, what’s happening in Oregon is not that. Most jurisdictions, Portland included, require protesters to apply for a permit and comply with laws and regulations relating to protest activity. But in recent weeks, police response in cities such as Seattle, Portland and New York has been to allow protesters to flagrantly break the law without recourse. A protester who assaulted the New York Police Department chief of department during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge on Thursday leaving him bloodied, was released without bail.

    The federal government is sovereign to the states and does not need a governor’s or mayor’s permission to enforce federal law. If local police will not protect federal property, the federal government can. Contrary to some media reports, the federal agents making arrests in Portland can be seen wearing identifying patches on their uniforms, with “police” emblazoned on their vests, and Acting Commissioner Mark Morgan has confirmed they are Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents. The agents have appeared in rented, unmarked vans because they are on temporary duty assignments in Portland; it’s not an effort to keep their identities secret.

    Critics have pointed to arrests made by these agents away from the federal courthouse as evidence they are rounding up “innocent protesters.” Federal agents are not precluded from making probable-cause arrests, or arrests based on warrants, away from federal property. Since many of these federal teams have been in place for weeks, it is likely they have arrest packages on individuals accused of previously committing crimes who are now being identified through investigations. In several videos, agents can be seen bypassing individuals to arrest persons of apparent interest; these appear to be targeted operations, not the roundup of innocents.

    All of law enforcement is accountable to the citizens by way of their elected officials. If the people of Portland, Seattle and New York are fine with having anarchy in their streets, they can continue to vote for politicians who handcuff the police and back them down. If the rest of the country wants federal law enforcement to look like that, too, they can vote that way in November. In the meantime, however, the hyperbolic references comparing U.S. federal agents to Guantanamo Bay, Stormtroopers and Nazis should stop.

    .....
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Let's stop the nonsense about federal agents in Portland

    Pretty much what I've been saying all along.

    There have been conflicting reports about federal agents in camouflage and unmarked vehicles detaining protesters in Portland, Ore., without cause. This comes on the heels of scenes of federal officers, outfitted in blue shirts and tactical vests but no official patches or badges, protecting facilities in Washington, D.C., in June. The events have called into question the role of federal law enforcement and how it intersects with traditional policing.

    While many federal law enforcement agencies are investigative in nature and have special agents, not police officers, some do have a more traditional police role. The Secret Service Uniformed Division has been in operation since 1922 and provides traditional law enforcement services around the White House and foreign embassies in the U.S. Its agents conduct operations around the president and other dignitaries, including K-9, explosive ordnance disposal, and counter-assault teams. The Capitol Police is approximately 1,500 police officers strong and functions much like a traditional police department. Many other agencies have uniformed police officers as well, including the FBI, whose police officers protect the agency’s headquarters, FBI Academy in Quantico, Va., and its enormous field offices in Washington and New York.

    For all the controversy that surrounds J. Edgar Hoover today, the longtime FBI director, who died nearly a half-century ago, strongly opposed the notion of establishing a national police force. It was a primary motive for Hoover’s setting up the FBI National Academy (FBINA) in 1935. Not to be confused with the academy that trains new FBI special agents, the FBINA created the first executive training for police supervisors, some of whom were the only members of their departments to receive any formal training long ago. Today, the FBINA remains the gold standard for senior police officers who lead departments across the country and the world.

    But recent videos of federal agents in Portland detaining suspects has sparked debate, and critics of President Trump and Attorney General William Barr are making analogies to secret military operations and private armies. Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) said “they are snatching people off the street with no underlying justification.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) referred to federal agents in Portland as “Stormtroopers” in a tweet. Said Juan Chavez, director of the civil rights project at the Oregon Justice Resource Center: “It’s like stop and frisk meets Guantanamo Bay.” This is nonsense.

    The federal building and courthouse in Portland have been under assault by demonstrators for more than two weeks. In addition to the “mere graffiti” that opponents of the federal response have pointed to, there has been substantial damage to windows and doors; protesters have attempted to set fire to the facility; and federal agents attempting to stop the violence have been assaulted while the protestors blind them with laser lights. Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler has sided with the protesters and told Portland police to back down. Last week he told the acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf to send the federal agents away.

    While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, what’s happening in Oregon is not that. Most jurisdictions, Portland included, require protesters to apply for a permit and comply with laws and regulations relating to protest activity. But in recent weeks, police response in cities such as Seattle, Portland and New York has been to allow protesters to flagrantly break the law without recourse. A protester who assaulted the New York Police Department chief of department during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge on Thursday leaving him bloodied, was released without bail.

    The federal government is sovereign to the states and does not need a governor’s or mayor’s permission to enforce federal law. If local police will not protect federal property, the federal government can. Contrary to some media reports, the federal agents making arrests in Portland can be seen wearing identifying patches on their uniforms, with “police” emblazoned on their vests, and Acting Commissioner Mark Morgan has confirmed they are Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents. The agents have appeared in rented, unmarked vans because they are on temporary duty assignments in Portland; it’s not an effort to keep their identities secret.

    Critics have pointed to arrests made by these agents away from the federal courthouse as evidence they are rounding up “innocent protesters.” Federal agents are not precluded from making probable-cause arrests, or arrests based on warrants, away from federal property. Since many of these federal teams have been in place for weeks, it is likely they have arrest packages on individuals accused of previously committing crimes who are now being identified through investigations. In several videos, agents can be seen bypassing individuals to arrest persons of apparent interest; these appear to be targeted operations, not the roundup of innocents.

    All of law enforcement is accountable to the citizens by way of their elected officials. If the people of Portland, Seattle and New York are fine with having anarchy in their streets, they can continue to vote for politicians who handcuff the police and back them down. If the rest of the country wants federal law enforcement to look like that, too, they can vote that way in November. In the meantime, however, the hyperbolic references comparing U.S. federal agents to Guantanamo Bay, Stormtroopers and Nazis should stop.

    .....
    And just as wrong, and just a naive as what you have been saying all along.

    The problem is that by the time you figure out the real danger they are to our way of life, it will be too late to save it. Hopefully the push back that will stop this will be able to proceed without your help or the help of people like you.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      And just as wrong, and just a naive as what you have been saying all along.

      The problem is that by the time you figure out the real danger they are to our way of life, it will be too late to save it. Hopefully the push back that will stop this will be able to proceed without your help or the help of people like you.
      Thanks, Jim. You're still WAY wrong on so many points, and I note you do not apologize, retract, or clarify.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Thanks, Jim. You're still WAY wrong on so many points, and I note you do not apologize, retract, or clarify.
        What is there to retract, clarify, or apologize for CP?
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          What is there to retract, clarify, or apologize for CP?
          I've already forgiven you, so I forgot.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think we need to let Portland have their own way on the rest of the city outside of Federal property. If they want to burn it to the ground, that's their business. Trump should just deny them any Federal aid down the line because they are refusing Federal police aid now that could have helped prevent the damage they will want Federal funds to repair later.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I think we need to let Portland have their own way on the rest of the city outside of Federal property. If they want to burn it to the ground, that's their business. Trump should just deny them any Federal aid down the line because they are refusing Federal police aid now that could have helped prevent the damage they will want Federal funds to repair later.
              I agree, let it burn, it will make for great commercials in the upcoming election.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                I think we need to let Portland have their own way on the rest of the city outside of Federal property. If they want to burn it to the ground, that's their business. Trump should just deny them any Federal aid down the line because they are refusing Federal police aid now that could have helped prevent the damage they will want Federal funds to repair later.
                Yeah, at this point, it needs to be up to the people of the city of Portland. If they want chaos and anarchy, let them keep Democrats in power.

                I'll all for "bringing our troops home".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Let's stop the nonsense about federal agents in Portland

                  Pretty much what I've been saying all along.

                  There have been conflicting reports about federal agents in camouflage and unmarked vehicles detaining protesters in Portland, Ore., without cause. This comes on the heels of scenes of federal officers, outfitted in blue shirts and tactical vests but no official patches or badges, protecting facilities in Washington, D.C., in June. The events have called into question the role of federal law enforcement and how it intersects with traditional policing.

                  While many federal law enforcement agencies are investigative in nature and have special agents, not police officers, some do have a more traditional police role. The Secret Service Uniformed Division has been in operation since 1922 and provides traditional law enforcement services around the White House and foreign embassies in the U.S. Its agents conduct operations around the president and other dignitaries, including K-9, explosive ordnance disposal, and counter-assault teams. The Capitol Police is approximately 1,500 police officers strong and functions much like a traditional police department. Many other agencies have uniformed police officers as well, including the FBI, whose police officers protect the agency’s headquarters, FBI Academy in Quantico, Va., and its enormous field offices in Washington and New York.

                  For all the controversy that surrounds J. Edgar Hoover today, the longtime FBI director, who died nearly a half-century ago, strongly opposed the notion of establishing a national police force. It was a primary motive for Hoover’s setting up the FBI National Academy (FBINA) in 1935. Not to be confused with the academy that trains new FBI special agents, the FBINA created the first executive training for police supervisors, some of whom were the only members of their departments to receive any formal training long ago. Today, the FBINA remains the gold standard for senior police officers who lead departments across the country and the world.

                  But recent videos of federal agents in Portland detaining suspects has sparked debate, and critics of President Trump and Attorney General William Barr are making analogies to secret military operations and private armies. Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) said “they are snatching people off the street with no underlying justification.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) referred to federal agents in Portland as “Stormtroopers” in a tweet. Said Juan Chavez, director of the civil rights project at the Oregon Justice Resource Center: “It’s like stop and frisk meets Guantanamo Bay.” This is nonsense.

                  The federal building and courthouse in Portland have been under assault by demonstrators for more than two weeks. In addition to the “mere graffiti” that opponents of the federal response have pointed to, there has been substantial damage to windows and doors; protesters have attempted to set fire to the facility; and federal agents attempting to stop the violence have been assaulted while the protestors blind them with laser lights. Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler has sided with the protesters and told Portland police to back down. Last week he told the acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf to send the federal agents away.

                  While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances, what’s happening in Oregon is not that. Most jurisdictions, Portland included, require protesters to apply for a permit and comply with laws and regulations relating to protest activity. But in recent weeks, police response in cities such as Seattle, Portland and New York has been to allow protesters to flagrantly break the law without recourse. A protester who assaulted the New York Police Department chief of department during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge on Thursday leaving him bloodied, was released without bail.

                  The federal government is sovereign to the states and does not need a governor’s or mayor’s permission to enforce federal law. If local police will not protect federal property, the federal government can. Contrary to some media reports, the federal agents making arrests in Portland can be seen wearing identifying patches on their uniforms, with “police” emblazoned on their vests, and Acting Commissioner Mark Morgan has confirmed they are Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents. The agents have appeared in rented, unmarked vans because they are on temporary duty assignments in Portland; it’s not an effort to keep their identities secret.

                  Critics have pointed to arrests made by these agents away from the federal courthouse as evidence they are rounding up “innocent protesters.” Federal agents are not precluded from making probable-cause arrests, or arrests based on warrants, away from federal property. Since many of these federal teams have been in place for weeks, it is likely they have arrest packages on individuals accused of previously committing crimes who are now being identified through investigations. In several videos, agents can be seen bypassing individuals to arrest persons of apparent interest; these appear to be targeted operations, not the roundup of innocents.

                  All of law enforcement is accountable to the citizens by way of their elected officials. If the people of Portland, Seattle and New York are fine with having anarchy in their streets, they can continue to vote for politicians who handcuff the police and back them down. If the rest of the country wants federal law enforcement to look like that, too, they can vote that way in November. In the meantime, however, the hyperbolic references comparing U.S. federal agents to Guantanamo Bay, Stormtroopers and Nazis should stop.

                  .....
                  "While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government" Does that include peaceful protesters being tear-gassed so that the president can walk a few metres to do a photo op outside a respected church?
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    "While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government" Does that include peaceful protesters being tear-gassed so that the president can walk a few metres to do a photo op outside a respected church?
                    I have clearly denounced that photo op elsewhere on this board. He used the Bible and a church as props for political purposes.

                    As for Portland, what are peaceful protesters doing hanging around rioters at night?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      "While all Americans cherish the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government" Does that include peaceful protesters being tear-gassed so that the president can walk a few metres to do a photo op outside a respected church?
                      We already had a thread on that. You should probably take this derail there. Deflection noted.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I have clearly denounced that photo op elsewhere on this board. He used the Bible and a church as props for political purposes.

                        As for Portland, what are peaceful protesters doing hanging around rioters at night?
                        Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that the violent protesters were cleared out solely for the President's benefit or that tear gas was used. In fact, every law enforcement official who haa spoken on the record says that tear gas was not used.

                        But, yes, using the Bible as a prop was not cool. I understand the point he wanted to make, but he chose a poor way to make it.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So, the more we watch this chaos unfolding night after night after night, and local 'authorities' not only allowing, but encouraging it, a few things become clear.

                          The leftists are FAR more concerned about 'peaceful protesters' and 'moms' getting hurt than they are about a bunch of anarchist anti-American THUGS attempting to tear burn down a federal building.

                          So, a couple of questions...

                          What are "moms" doing in a riot zone defending anarchists trying to burn down a federal building?
                          What are "peaceful protesters" doing hanging around a riot zone?

                          If they truly were "peaceful protesters", they would separate themselves from the chaos and violence instead of putting their lives in jeopardy by becoming part of it.

                          It's just STUPID to claim to be a "peaceful protester", and try to "peacefully protest" in what has become a riot zone.
                          It's JUST as stupid for lefties to be outraged at these "peaceful protesters" being harmed when they clearly identify with and aid and abet the chaos and mayhem.

                          "Peaceful protests" are not conducted late at night in a riot zone.


                          And, by the way, the ONLY reason these women are referred to as "moms" is to make them look more innocent as they aid and abet violence.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            We already had a thread on that. You should probably take this derail there. Deflection noted.
                            Not to mention that the tear gassing was proved to be a myth.


                            Drat. I mentioned it


                            Anywho, more "Whataboutism" that chuckie will be sure to condemn

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Not to mention that the tear gassing was proved to be a myth.


                              Drat. I mentioned it


                              Anywho, more "Whataboutism" that chuckie will be sure to condemn
                              Except one of his own brought it up.


                              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                              Comment

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