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Donald Trump and the Coronavirus
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmmm...no. I have never made that argument. This is a marvelous example of people adding to what I have said.
Some truths are relative (e.g., I am hungry). Some truths are (presumably) universal (e.g., first law of thermodynamics). Some truths are absolute (e.g., a statement cannot be true and untrue in the same way at the same time).
Yeah, okay, carpe.
I've debated you more than enough to know that what you happen to consider a "relative truth" changes like the wind depending on what you want to believe is true at any given moment. Also, "I am hungry" is not a relative truth. Either you're hungry, or you're not.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Roy View PostI'm going to ignore those "details" because they're complete garbage. Germany has less confirmed cases and less deaths than the US both per capita and overall. Nor has Germany had a spike in cases*.
*They have had a 'spike' in deaths over the last two days, but so has the US."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post"I've never argued that truth is relative, I've only argued that some truths are relative!"
Yeah, okay, carpe.
I've debated you more than enough to know that what you happen to consider a "relative truth" changes like the wind depending on what you want to believe is true at any given moment. Also, "I am hungry" is not a relative truth. Either you're hungry, or you're not.
Or are you suggesting there are no relative truths? If you are, that is preposterous. The statement "I am hungry" is only true relative to a given person at a given time in a given place. Change any of those factors and the statement "I am hungry" can shift from "true" to "untrue."
If you disagree - make your case. I submit you will not be able to make the statement "I am hungry" or "Fred is hungry" absolutely and universally true without nailing it down to a place and time - making it relative to that place and time. And your statement about "I am hungry" confuses the value of the statement with the observation that it cannot be both true and untrue in the same way and at the same time. I have never argued that the law of noncontradiction does not apply. I have argued that some statements truth value is relative to circumstance. "I am hungry" is one of those statements. It can be true at one time/place for one person and false at another time/place or for another person. It is relative to time/place/person. It has no determinant truth value until that is specified and can change when that specification changes.
The law of noncontradiction cannot.Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-16-2020, 08:33 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAre you unable to see the differences between "the truth is relative," (implying all truths are relative) and "some truths are relative," (implying that there are other kinds of truth?) Seriously?
Or are you suggesting there are no relative truths? If you are, that is preposterous. The statement "I am hungry" is only true relative to a given person at a given time in a given place. Change any of those factors and the statement "I am hungry" can shift from "true" to "untrue."
If you disagree - make your case. I submit you will not be able to make the statement "I am hungry" or "Fred is hungry" absolutely and universally true without nailing it down to a place and time - making it relative to that place and time.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have actually noted that other countries are also failing to handle the outbreak well multiple times.
You can ignore them if you wish. Germany has indeed had a spike, but continues to manage the outbreak in a fashion superior to ours. You can see that in their (naive) death rate, which is now 2.8% (and climbing) while ours is at 4.4% (and climbing). They also have a lower cases per million, lower deaths per million, and their testing per million is double ours.
Anyone who can look at the data and say "the U.S. is doing just fine" is (intentionally?) blind to the data."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostThe raw data suggest it’s spreading all over the world and has infected more in Germany than the US and Germany recently had a spike, in cases. That can’t be used to blame Trump, so we’ll ignore those details.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYet, for some strange reason, you seem less willing to critique them, even when many of them are doing worse, in both per million infections and deaths. Hummm, interesting...
And you missed the point (as always). They are catching up and not doing a whole lot better. We’ll ignore that though so you can feel better about it, k?
Compared to the rest of the west, we’re doing just fine. I await your criticism of the ones doing the same or worse... I’m sure it will come any minute now...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo the virus has not "infected more in Germany than the US". You made that up.
The numbers changed between when I posted and now, but we can’t have that now."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by simplicio View PostSo we are doing just fine, compared to the rest of the west! Is that what is to be expected for the richest nation in the world? The hospitals in the cities are more than hectic, and nursing homes are close to collapsing, all the old rules have been discarded."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYet, for some strange reason, you seem less willing to critique them, even when many of them are doing worse, in both per million infections and deaths. Hummm, interesting...
Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd you missed the point (as always). They are catching up and not doing a whole lot better. We’ll ignore that though so you can feel better about it, k?
Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostCompared to the rest of the west, we’re doing just fine. I await your criticism of the ones doing the same or worse... I’m sure it will come any minute now...
There is no question that U.S. leadership is failing us, especially at the federal level. But it's understandable. You need to devote time to getting your name on stimulus checks, evaluating your ratings, and holding campaign rallies in the guise of press briefings. After all, getting re-elected is everything. We wouldn't actually want to be doing something about coordinating resources between states, ensuring adequate supplies of critical resources, and implementing national stay-at-home policies to control the spread of a pandemic. And yes - this paragraph is largely sarcastic.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostOr....
The numbers changed between when I posted and now, but we can’t have that now.
Sorry, Pix - I've been tracking the numbers. Your statement was wrong when you made it....The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostOr....
The numbers changed between when I posted and now, but we can’t have that now.
Any other excuses you want to try before you shift to blatant lying?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI don't live there. I note they are not handling things well, and focus on the place where I live. That has more direct impact on my day-to-day life.
Umm...no. The data does not support "they are catching up." For most of them, their curve is shallower than ours, which means the gap is widening, assuming you are talking about the countries doing worse than us.
We are performing slightly better than seven developed western nations. Unlike you, however, I don't limit my vision to just the nations I can point to that are having a harder go of it. Furthermore, while some of their "harder time" is due to mismanagement (like ours), they also have higher population densities than the U.S. while having the same (or slightly less) percentage of their population in urban centers. Basic epidemiology: pandemics move faster through densely populated areas than sparsely populated ones.
There is no question that U.S. leadership is failing us, especially at the federal level. But it's understandable. You need to devote time to getting your name on stimulus checks, evaluating your ratings, and holding campaign rallies in the guise of press briefings. After all, getting re-elected is everything. We wouldn't actually want to be doing something about coordinating resources between states, ensuring adequate supplies of critical resources, and implementing national stay-at-home policies to control the spread of a pandemic. And yes - this paragraph is largely sarcastic."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo, because that's not true either. Germany also had less confirmed cases and less deaths than the US both per capita and overall when you posted and beforehand. And even if the numbers had changed in that way, your revised claim would be untrue, because it would mean Germany wasn't catching up with US numbers, but falling behind.
Any other excuses you want to try before you shift to blatant lying?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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