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A Reason Why a Democrat Presidency in 2020 is an Extremely Bad Idea

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Waaaaannnnhhhhh.... we had more home runs than the other team, and they still won!!!
    There's actually a question about whether or not those runs were legit...


    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      There's actually a question about whether or not those runs were legit...


      But I saw them taking Imodium and making frequent trips to the bathroom!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        But I saw them taking Imodium and making frequent trips to the bathroom!





        Hey!!!
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Why can't the democrats every just play by the existing rules? Rather than winning within the bounds of the law, they decide to change the rules. They want to eliminate the electoral college because they lost the election, now they want to restructure the supreme court because Trump got some conservatives in.

          It's sad.
          You mean like giving a presidents supreme court nomination a hearing, instead of holding the position hostage to the "will of the people," only to then observe, only a few years later, that if the same situation arises in 2020, they will seat a justice as soon as possible, and to heck with "the will of the people?" You mean like that?

          ETA: BTW, this post in no way implies my agreement with the positions taken by the left in the OP. Personally, I think packing the court is a bad idea. Frankly, I think the entire politicization of the courts has been incredibly bad for us as a nation. But I do think complaining about "playing by the rules" is more than a little disingenuous, when BOTH parties do it. And I personally think the electoral college needs to go, and it has noting to do with "I lost" since I'm not a democrat and didn't even vote for Gore in 2000. I think it needs to go because it was a bad idea and does not reflect the modern forces at work within the country.
          Last edited by carpedm9587; 08-15-2019, 01:06 PM.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            You mean like giving a presidents supreme court nomination a hearing, instead of holding the position hostage to the "will of the people," only to then observe, only a few years later, that if the same situation arises in 2020, they will seat a justice as soon as possible, and to heck with "the will of the people?" You mean like that?

            ETA: BTW, this post in no way implies my agreement with the positions taken by the left in the OP. Personally, I think packing the court is a bad idea. Frankly, I think the entire politicization of the courts has been incredibly bad for us as a nation. But I do think complaining about "playing by the rules" is more than a little disingenuous, when BOTH parties do it.
            I have no clue what you just said.

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            • #21
              I am not saying it is currently, but once a court has been politicized, it is no longer legitimate, and it is the duty of higher authorities to disband that court. The SCOTUS will know this and tread very carefully, particularly if they become politically lop-sided, one way or the other.

              Stuffing the courts with your political allies is always a recipe for disaster.
              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
              “not all there” - you know who you are

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              • #22
                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                I am not saying it is currently, but once a court has been politicized, it is no longer legitimate, and it is the duty of higher authorities to disband that court. The SCOTUS will know this and tread very carefully, particularly if they become politically lop-sided, one way or the other.

                Stuffing the courts with your political allies is always a recipe for disaster.
                Wow, I agree with about 90% of that.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  I have no clue what you just said.
                  In 2016, Scalia died. Mitch McConnell refused to even hold hearings on Obama's nominee, insisting that it was an election year and "the will of the people" would be known in November, after which hearings could be initiated on any nominee presented by the new president. Merrick Garland, Obama's nominee, was never even given a hearing. When asked, a couple of months ago, if he would hold to the same standard if a seat were to open up in 2020, McConnell made it clear that they would immediately move to seat any nominee Trump presents. So much for "the will of the people."

                  We can have a great deal of debate as to whether that is or is not "playing by the rules," but there is little question that it is talking out of both sides of one's mouth. And both parties do it - so the "Democrats bad" rant is more than a little disingenuous.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    I am not saying it is currently, but once a court has been politicized, it is no longer legitimate, and it is the duty of higher authorities to disband that court. The SCOTUS will know this and tread very carefully, particularly if they become politically lop-sided, one way or the other.

                    Stuffing the courts with your political allies is always a recipe for disaster.
                    As Robert's said, there should be no "Obama judges" and "Bush judges" and "Trump judges." There should simply be judges devoted to upholding the rule of law. ANY judge not doing that should be removed from the bench. If the courts become political...then our experiment in democracy is in serious danger of failing.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      In 2016, Scalia died. Mitch McConnell refused to even hold hearings on Obama's nominee, insisting that it was an election year and "the will of the people" would be known in November, after which hearings could be initiated on any nominee presented by the new president. Merrick Garland, Obama's nominee, was never even given a hearing. When asked, a couple of months ago, if he would hold to the same standard if a seat were to open up in 2020, McConnell made it clear that they would immediately move to seat any nominee Trump presents. So much for "the will of the people."

                      We can have a great deal of debate as to whether that is or is not "playing by the rules," but there is little question that it is talking out of both sides of one's mouth. And both parties do it - so the "Democrats bad" rant is more than a little disingenuous.
                      I admit - I did NOT want Obama getting a third bite at the apple and was happy McConnell did it - but I'm not going to pretend that it wasn't hypocritical.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        As Robert's said, there should be no "Obama judges" and "Bush judges" and "Trump judges." There should simply be judges devoted to upholding the rule of law. ANY judge not doing that should be removed from the bench. If the courts become political...then our experiment in democracy is in serious danger of failing.
                        Which would be great - if it weren't complete fantasy. The last sixty years have really highlighted it - but the Court has always had a weather eye on politics.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          In 2016, Scalia died. Mitch McConnell refused to even hold hearings on Obama's nominee, insisting that it was an election year and "the will of the people" would be known in November, after which hearings could be initiated on any nominee presented by the new president. Merrick Garland, Obama's nominee, was never even given a hearing. When asked, a couple of months ago, if he would hold to the same standard if a seat were to open up in 2020, McConnell made it clear that they would immediately move to seat any nominee Trump presents. So much for "the will of the people."

                          We can have a great deal of debate as to whether that is or is not "playing by the rules," but there is little question that it is talking out of both sides of one's mouth. And both parties do it - so the "Democrats bad" rant is more than a little disingenuous.
                          I agree that is an example of the Republicans changing the rules.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            In 2016, Scalia died. Mitch McConnell refused to even hold hearings on Obama's nominee, insisting that it was an election year and "the will of the people" would be known in November, after which hearings could be initiated on any nominee presented by the new president. Merrick Garland, Obama's nominee, was never even given a hearing. When asked, a couple of months ago, if he would hold to the same standard if a seat were to open up in 2020, McConnell made it clear that they would immediately move to seat any nominee Trump presents. So much for "the will of the people."
                            I am not sure McConnell ever used the phrase "will of the people" (he could have, but I do not recall it) but there is a distinction between the two situations. What was stressed in the case of Scalia/Garland was that it was a lame duck presidential year. That was not the case with Kennedy/Kavanaugh. I suppose someone can claim it's a distinction without difference, but they stressed the lame duck aspect enough that there was definitely a real distinction there.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                              I am not sure McConnell ever used the phrase "will of the people" (he could have, but I do not recall it) but there is a distinction between the two situations. What was stressed in the case of Scalia/Garland was that it was a lame duck presidential year. That was not the case with Kennedy/Kavanaugh. I suppose someone can claim it's a distinction without difference, but they stressed the lame duck aspect enough that there was definitely a real distinction there.
                              I don't think the distinction matters. It might close to election or right after, but that wasn't the case and I'm not sure it should matter even then. If there were a national emergency - a declaration of war from a country we would have to answer, for example - we shouldn't hamstring the president we have while waiting for the new one. One would hope the current president would have sense enough to talk to incoming - but in the rare instance when we haven't the luxury to wait, the guy in office should still be President of the United States in reality and not just name.

                              If we start making exceptions for this or that policy we undermine the presidency itself.

                              So yeah, I AM glad McConnell did it. I do acknowledge it was completely lawful - and unfair. But now we need to plug that hole because it's not really okay even if it does serve our ends.

                              Still, another Obama appointee would likely mean more dead babies, so I can't say I don't approve. When the Court stops letting people kill each other, then I'll be more reticent.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                                I am not sure McConnell ever used the phrase "will of the people" (he could have, but I do not recall it) but there is a distinction between the two situations. What was stressed in the case of Scalia/Garland was that it was a lame duck presidential year. That was not the case with Kennedy/Kavanaugh. I suppose someone can claim it's a distinction without difference, but they stressed the lame duck aspect enough that there was definitely a real distinction there.
                                I made no comparison to Kennedy/Cavaugh. The question McConnell was asked was about what he would do if a SCOTUS seat opened up in 2020.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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