Could we tell whether animals are conscious by teaching them to push a button whenever they see an interference pattern, and then run the experiment so that only they observe the results?
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Wigner's friend, the existence of the Immaterial soul, and death of materialism
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow does that happen? What is the physical connection between the observer and the wave to cause this?
Precisely how this forces things into that state is not understood at this point, but the phenomenon itself is well studied.
Originally posted by Sparko View Postfor everyone or just that observer?
Not sure how extensively "everyone" has been characterized, though. A quantum object isn't like a museum exhibit that, given enough time, you can parade a whole city past to observe.
Originally posted by Just Passing Through View PostThere’s one thing about these double slit experiments I’ve never been able to get clear. Does the “observer” have to be conscious, and does the conscious observer have to know which slit the particle went through, or just that whichever slit it passed through was measured and is now potentially knowable?"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostTo observe a quantum system, you have to interact with it in some way. So, bounce photons off an electron to determine its spin, have a photon run into a photodetector, etc. It's this process that ends with something in a defined state.
Precisely how this forces things into that state is not understood at this point, but the phenomenon itself is well studied.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo when I look at an electron wave I am generating photons that interact with the wave and cause it to collapse?"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by Just Passing Through View PostCould we tell whether animals are conscious by teaching them to push a button whenever they see an interference pattern, and then run the experiment so that only they observe the results?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostWhich interpretation of the Copenhagen interpretation?
As far as i'm aware, the Copenhagen interpretation doesn't specify the qualities that an observer must have. So, i think that both my favored position and grmorton's would be compatible with Copenhagen.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostDoesn't an observer have to possess consciousness in order to be considered an observer? Lets say that there were no conscious observers existent in the world, nothing observing anything, what does the Copenhagen theory say would happen?"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostAgain, this is the whole basis of the discussion grmorton and i have been having. We have no way of scientifically determining how to answer your questions, and Copenhagen said nothing definitive about how consciousness was involved.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostObviously the universe saves on memory and CPU cycles by not rendering the parts of the universe that nobody is looking at. duh."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by grmorton View Post
By an 'ultimate reality', Wigner is implicitly stating that the laws of quantum do not apply to consciousness.
In my next post, I will discuss an extension of Wigner's friend paradox that has been tested experimentally. It explicitly states that consciousness is not subject to the laws of quantum and thus does not arise from the material. Further the experiment shows a fundamental logical paradox which, if you believe in the multiverse, requires a privileged observer for its solution--that is, a God.
My friend Gordon Simons and I have written up a comprehensive and understandable (we have tested it) paper which I have placed on my blog which can be found here.
“There was a young man who said "God
Must find it exceedingly odd
That the sycamore tree
Continues to be
When there's no one about in the quad."
Reply:
"Dear Sir: Your astonishment's odd;
I am always about in the quad.
So the sycamore tree
Continues to be
Observed by Yours faithfully, God.”
Ronald Knox
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Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post“There was a young man who said "God
Must find it exceedingly odd
That the sycamore tree
Continues to be
When there's no one about in the quad."
Reply:
"Dear Sir: Your astonishment's odd;
I am always about in the quad.
So the sycamore tree
Continues to be
Observed by Yours faithfully, God.”
Ronald KnoxAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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