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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Moderated By: Bill the Cat



    The entire blasphemous comment and subsequent responses have been removed.

    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      If you tell me that your religious views are that "the LGBTQ community is 'sinful' and must be denied basic rights available to others because of that," then your religious views should be (finally!) constrained.
      Sinful, yes.

      Denial of basic rights?
      Those of us who believe that such an exclusion smacks of prejudice/bigotry should vote with our feet and not buy the magazine, encourage advertisers not to advertise in the magazine, etc.
      Oh really? You think it is OK to pressure advertisers to not advertise in a magazine that never made any comment about the LGBT community, but simply doesn't endorse the lifestyle. Then you claim that is how the free market works. You'd scream blue murder if it was a gay magazine being pressured to endorse hetero lifestyles - in that case, you'd have no trouble identifying that it is neither how the free market works nor how it should work. You'd be saying that gays can have their niche market magazines and have the right to serve their niche market without interference - a right that you deny to a marketer that you don't approve of.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        You cannot hide prejudice and discrimination behind "moral principals," Seer. So yes, if sex education is to be taught in schools, it should include coverage of all sexual orientations without prejudice or discrimination. If you don't like it, then you can a) vote for people that will advocate for your discriminatory views - and I will fight tooth and nail against it, or b) start your own school or send your child to a private school. But our public money should not be used to promote a discriminatory POV.
        You really are a fascist at heart Carp. How about you let parents opt their kids out of sex ed - which is how it used to be? Or provide vouchers for so kids can get out of these indoctrination centers. But no, you don't want more freedom, you want absolute conformity.


        No - it's not. Repeating it won't make it so. It is perfectly consistent: no discriminatory or prejudicial philosophy should be taught or promoted in our schools, even those attempting to hide under the cover of "religion" and "morality."
        Yet it is YOUR SIDE forcing kids to take sex ed. That certainly is prejudicial.



        No - I find the exercise of religion protected - but every exercise of religion has limits. If you tell me that your religious views are that a child should be sacrificed every Sunday at your community celebration, then your "religious freedom" will be constrained. If you tell me that your religious views stipulate that "ownership" is a sin and that gives you the right to take anything from anyone, then your religious views will be constrained. If you tell me that your religious views are that "the LGBTQ community is 'sinful' and must be denied basic rights available to others because of that," then your religious views should be (finally!) constrained.
        Yet, I have Constitution warrant for my position, there is no such justification for forcing a religious person to violate his beliefs. And I am not the one taking anything from any one, you are the one taking my labor, by law, under threat of penalty. The Christian baker took nothing from anyone.


        If you want to practice such views - practice them within your churches and among your membership. If you bring them out into the marketplace and civil theater - we will fight against the views and their encoding in our laws and practices.
        There is nothing in the Constitution saying that my free exercise ends at the church door. But leftists like you have no reverence for the Constitution.

        The objection, Seer, is that people who think like you have been the dominant power in the U.S. from the dawn of the republic. Now that power is shifting and those who hold these views suddenly find themselves constrained and marginalized. It's not a happy place to be. To that I say, "good - it's about time these views are marginalized in our society." I will continue to advocate for their elimination in our laws, schools, and the public marketplace in general. What you do in your churches and private homes is your business.
        And that is why you are a hypocrite. You seek to marginalize the groups you disagree with. Neither accepting nor inclusive. You are full of it Carp...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          That old chestnut! I had a side bet that it would be Sparko, MM, or Seer that would toss it in. I completely forgot about you - but it fits.
          Not ME? This thread is all about me!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            Sinful, yes.

            Denial of basic rights? Oh really?
            Yes - rights associated with the benefits of marriage, including medical and inheritance rights, etc. In some cases, rights to freely raise a family. In some cases, basic parental rights. The list goes on.

            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            You think it is OK to pressure advertisers to not advertise in a magazine that never made any comment about the LGBT community, but simply doesn't endorse the lifestyle.
            Of course. Apparently - they DID make an (indirect) comment: they said they would not include such couples in their magazine. I find that no different than saying "we will not have black couples in our magazine." They are free to do so - but I'm not going to buy and I'm going to get behind any initiative that pressures advertisers to go to more inclusive magazines.

            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            Then you claim that is how the free market works. You'd scream blue murder if it was a gay magazine being pressured to endorse hetero lifestyles - in that case, you'd have no trouble identifying that it is neither how the free market works nor how it should work.
            The magazine was about weddings - not about heterosexuality or homosexuality. If someone starts a magazine called "Heterosexual Today," and focuses it on issues related to heterosexuality, I would find it odd for them to be asked to include homosexuality in their coverage. The magazine "Black Enterprise" does not usually contain articles about white businesses - it deals with the challenges of starting a business faces by black people, and champions the businesses that have been started. Personally, I don't like either and won't buy them, but I also won't pressure advertisers to avoid them.

            But a magazine that promotes weddings and then refuses to allow black people or gay people is explicitly practicing discrimination: I will not buy, and I will pressure advertisers to take their money elsewhere. The same would be true of a magazine promoting architecture who refuses to include the works of black people or gay people, and so forth.

            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            You'd be saying that gays can have their niche market magazines and have the right to serve their niche market without interference - a right that you deny to a marketer that you don't approve of.
            No - not in the least.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              No, I am not a hypocrite. I am perfectly consistent in my views, AFAICT.
              So, you equally condemn Tassman for coming here day after day and spewing forth his anti-Christian bigotry, yes?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • OooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  OooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
                  A post so nice it showed up twice?
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    You really are a fascist at heart Carp. How about you let parents opt their kids out of sex ed - which is how it used to be? Or provide vouchers for so kids can get out of these indoctrination centers. But no, you don't want more freedom, you want absolute conformity.
                    I'm pretty sure my posts said "opt out." It was in reference to the entire school, not just a single class. I'm not sure I would be behind letting people "opt out" of a single class because of prejudicial and discriminatory views. Then we can have the white supremacist wanting to opt their child out of American history because of how it teaches the civil war, and the Klansman to opt out of world history because it teaches that the holocaust was real, and so forth. It's a formula for a mess. A school has a curriculum - some courses are mandatory - if you don't like it for prejudicial/discriminatory reasons - take your child elsewhere.

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Yet it is YOUR SIDE forcing kids to take sex ed. That certainly is prejudicial.
                    To you, clearly. People with prejudices and discriminatory views seldom like to be called on them. And I don't think anyone is being "forced" to take sex ed. There are charter and private schools throughout the land. If your church stands so strongly against all of this, then start a school. You can also home school. LOTS of choices.

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Yet, I have Constitution warrant for my position, there is no such justification for forcing a religious person to violate his beliefs.
                    Nobody is forcing you to violate your beliefs.

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    And I am not the one taking anything from any one, you are the one taking my labor, by law, under threat of penalty. The Christian baker took nothing from anyone.
                    I'm not going to go round and round on this again. My preference tends to be to let the market speak, but the fact is there are still too many people like you for that to happen. The anti-LGBTQ person will still find plenty of advocates for their position. Hopefully, someday, there will be so many of us that anyone trying to pull this prejudicial/discriminatory crap will simply find themselves without customers and that will be that. Until then, as with the laws that made it illegal for the "white only" counters and bathrooms, we need those legal protections. Today, in most of the country, a "white only" bathroom would cause that business to fail almost immediately. That was not so when we were first beginning to make the change.

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    There is nothing in the Constitution saying that my free exercise ends at the church door. But leftists like you have no reverence for the Constitution.
                    Can't speak for the "leftists." I can speak for myself. The Constitution permits you to say what you think without the government taking action. So you can preach your anti-LGBTQ vitriol on the main street and not be arrested for it. It does not protect you from the rest of us saying, "we don't want to hear it." And it does not protect people who wish to treat other fellow citizens like trash, or restrict their access to the same rights and privileges the rest of us enjoy.

                    The Constitution was originally written to strongly favor white, landed, men. Over time, we have added equality for women, equality among races, equality with regard to property, and now we are working on sexual orientation and gender identity. I say, "yeah!"

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    And that is why you are a hypocrite. You seek to marginalize the groups you disagree with. Neither accepting nor inclusive. You are full of it Carp...
                    I will always seek to marginalize those who speak to diminish others, Seer. I am not shy about it, and not embarrassed about it. Your complaints echo the complaints of every oppressor who has ever lived: "I have the right to be hateful to others if I so choose."

                    You're right. You do. You just can't enshrine that hatefulness in law or public practice. Those of us who stand against such things will always speak out against it - even if you cry, scream, call us hypocrites, and make every other effort that oppressors have taken throughout history. The white leaders of South Africa during apartheid screamed bloody murder when their supremacy was challenged. Suddenly, they were being "oppressed" and "discriminated against." In part, they were right. Often, when the oppressed gain ground/power, they over-do it and inflict on their oppressors exactly what was done to them. It's not right. It should not happen. I call them on it when I see it as well. But that doesn't mean that the cry for equality is intrinsically oppressive.

                    Resisting oppression is not bigotry or prejudice. It is taking a stand for justice. If your god actually does exist, I suspect he/she/it would approve.
                    Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 03:17 PM.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Not ME? This thread is all about me!


                      You do have a way of bringing a bit of light into a room, CP.


                      Now and then, anyway!
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        So, you equally condemn Tassman for coming here day after day and spewing forth his anti-Christian bigotry, yes?
                        I have no opinion because I seldom read Tass' posts, so I have no idea if he is actually "anti-Christian" or just expressing a non-christian viewpoint.

                        I will say that I am not "anti-Christian" and have been accused of so being many, many times. So...
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post


                          You do have a way of bringing a bit of light into a room, CP.


                          Now and then, anyway!
                          Yeah, a lot of folks here tend to take themselves WAY too seriously.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            OooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
                            I didn't see a duplication...



                            Oops... now I see it...
                            Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 03:08 PM.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Yeah, a lot of folks here tend to take themselves WAY too seriously.
                              Yeah... I know...








                              Now THAT is hypocritical!
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                OooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
                                [*Rogue Powaz Activate!*]


                                What double post?

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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