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The Impeachment Trial

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Schiff is going on and on and on trying to tell the Senate how they should do their job, and what all they've done wrong.

    Perhaps he missed the part of the Constitution where "The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments".
    It's his fantasy portrayals about what Trump is doing with China etc. that sound like his portrayal um, "parody" of the phone call with Zelensky that get me.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      That's patently false. Had they admitted that Trump had committed CRIMES, they would be hard pressed to declare the "bad deeds" were not impeachable.
      Lamar Alexander:

      The question then is not whether the president did it, but whether the United States Senate or the American people should decide what to do about what he did. I believe that the Constitution provides that the people should make that decision in the presidential election that begins in Iowa on Monday.
      Everyone heard the same evidence. The facts are not disputed. The law says whether these things are crimes or not.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        Lamar Alexander:
        Good man!

        Everyone heard the same evidence.
        From their own highly partisan perspectives, yes.

        The facts are not disputed.
        They most certainly are, or this thing would be over.

        The law says whether these things are crimes or not.
        No, the law defines what crimes are.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Good man!
          From their own highly partisan perspectives, yes.
          They most certainly are, or this thing would be over.
          No, the law defines what crimes are.
          Have you noticed how Trump’s defenders have changed their tune as more and more details have come to light?
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Have you noticed how Trump’s defenders have changed their tune as more and more details have come to light?
            I haven't!
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I haven't!
              There has been a considerable evolution of the pack of lies. Where have you been?

              https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...or-impeachment

              The Bolton story is not even the final version.
              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
              “not all there” - you know who you are

              Comment


              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                There has been a considerable evolution of the pack of lies. Where have you been?

                https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...or-impeachment

                The Bolton story is not even the final version.
                OK, so what ya got is....

                Trump did bad stuff which, though "improper" (as Alexander said), is not impeachable.
                The Democrats kinda sort proved the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.
                Bolton, apparently, will provide ADDITIONAL proof of the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.

                What's changed? Trump is forever impeached and will be forever acquitted.

                The incredibly vindictive partisan Democrats of the House are free to impeach AGAIN.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  It's sort of like saying you're being charged with and prosecuted for "committing a crime" without the actual crime being listed.
                  If the crime is spelled out in the Articles then it's still the same crime even if it is defined under the heading of "abuse of power." And it's defined that way because that is the definition of all crimes charged in an impeachment whether listed as such or not. The crime of bribery/extortion is spelled out in the articles for those who have the ability to comprehend.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    The incredibly partisan Democrats in the House making accusations of abuse of power have abused their own power, and they're getting shut down for it.
                    No they haven't, that's just the echo chamber reverberating through you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Pendragon View Post
                      So what is your answer to the question?

                      If Biden was not running for President would it be alright for Trump to ask Ukraine to investigate what happen with Hunter Biden's deal and Joe Biden's extortion to stop the investigation (Because it does look bad)?

                      If your answer is "No" because the Biden's did nothing wrong and so could not be guilty of "Abuse of Power" then why was Trump impeached? was he impeached just because Joe Biden is running for President, name the laws that say that if you are running for president means you can't be investigated. What was 'Crossfire Hurricane' all about why did we spend 3 years on a report on what Trump did when he was running for President?

                      Investigations start because of "Probable Cause" The probable cause in the case of Biden is damning:
                      1. Joe Biden admitted to withholding aid from Ukraine if they did not with fire the Attorney General investigation the company that the New York Time just told him had his son on the board of directors. This is "Abuse of Powers" as defined by the Dems. and a conflict of interest on Biden's part. Looks Bad
                      2. Hunter Biden is on the board of directors of a corrupt company with ZERO ability to do the job, but makes millions of dollars any way. In Hunter own words he admitted that it was probable because he was Joe Biden's son. Looks Corrupt on the surface
                      3. After the AG is fire the new AG drops the case. Really look like "Obstrution of Justice" and when combined with #1 It looks like "Extortion"
                      4. Several Agencies in the government including the State Department have said that the situation with Hunter Biden was problematic. Again looks very Bad for Biden

                      These are all give rise to "Probable Cause" for an investigation. Conflict of interest, Hunter being paid for a job he was wholly un-qualified for (Protection for a corrupt Company), Joe Biden getting the AG fired and stopping the investigation, All these lead to substantial Probable Cause for an investigation.

                      So it is my contention that Trump has every right (Probable Cause) look into the Biden's, even to ask Ukraine to look into it.

                      I asked you in my first post to give me the agency that investigated the Bidens if you where going to use the Biden was acquitted defense.

                      Well, What agency did the investigation to clear Biden?

                      Please don't use this answer again unless you are prepared to list agencies that investigated Biden.
                      Obviously my answer is that it’s not alright regardless of whether Biden was running for president or not. However if Biden wasn’t running for president then Trump wouldn’t have been impeached because there’s no political benefit which was a key factor.

                      If it ‘looks bad‘ then there’s nothing wrong with asking Zelensky to look into it but to withhold aid until they announce investigations publicly naming Biden is the problem. Where’s the public interest here?

                      I didn’t say Biden was acquitted, I said he was never investigated. If it’s so damning then why is there no investigation?

                      Start with ‘Withholding aid unless AG is removed’. If this was legitimately done then the rest doesn’t matter, you can only go to motives after first establishing improper conduct. So what was the aid? Did it have preconditions attached? When was it withheld and by who? Was reason for hold legitimate?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Yeah, but it still goes to "even if he did it, was it impeachable".
                        Of course it was impeachable. The republicans argument was that he didn't do it, they all know that he did, and Lamar Alexander finally had to admit to that, saying that, 'the Democrats proved their case, he did it, and then switched to, well okay he did it, but it's not impeachable. Follow the bouncing ball.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I haven't!
                          Of course you haven't.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            OK, so what ya got is....

                            Trump did bad stuff which, though "improper" (as Alexander said), is not impeachable.
                            The Democrats kinda sort proved the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.
                            Bolton, apparently, will provide ADDITIONAL proof of the "improper" bad non-impeachable stuff.

                            What's changed? Trump is forever impeached and will be forever acquitted.

                            The incredibly vindictive partisan Democrats of the House are free to impeach AGAIN.
                            No, Trump committed crimes - just as a matter of fact, not opinion. The defence said there were no crimes in the articles of impeachment, but they were lying when they said that. In the end, they argued that POTUS can crime all he wants. There are many correlates between Trump’s behaviour, and Nixon’s. And many judges have been removed from office for much less.
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • And the Democrats acting like the children they've been acting like for 3 years decide we are going to reqeust admendements ot the rules to allow our witnesses after the vote was no on the witnesses. I feel sorry for the Rank and file of the Democrat Party to have leaders that are so childish.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                No, Trump committed crimes -
                                Then why didn't the incredibly partisan House Democrats charge him with said crimes?

                                just as a matter of fact, not opinion.
                                Nope. Opinion, not fact.

                                The defence said there were no crimes in the articles of impeachment,
                                Because the offense didn't put them there.

                                but they were lying when they said that. In the end, they argued that POTUS can crime all he wants.
                                FF, friend, buddy.... please don't throw stones when you're tossing them from your own glass house.

                                There are many correlates between Trump’s behaviour, and Nixon’s.
                                The most glaring exception being the presence of ACTUAL CRIMES that triggered the Nixon impeachment.

                                And many judges have been removed from office for much less.
                                That's precious.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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