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This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


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Does preterism lead to atheism?

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  • Does preterism lead to atheism?

    I'm a long time member of TWEB. In the old days I asserted that preterism, taken to its logical conclusions, can lead to atheism. It turns out I wasn't just whistling dixie.

    Famous Christian apologist William Lane Craig gives a personal expeirience where one of his colleagues was led to atheism by preterism. It is at 8:30 of his video below. He also gives a critique of preterism in the next video.

    https://youtu.be/tRgSBmQfL_A

    https://youtu.be/a7NSBjGy7m0

    Long time preterist Roderick E. puts it this way.

    PRETERISM LOGICALLY LEADS TO ATHEISM
    Preterism's premise or starting point is what causes it to logically lead to functional atheism. This does not mean every person who adopts preterism will become an atheist, because not all preterists are following the logic of preterism's premise.

    We first need to clearly understand the main premise(s) of preterism to understand why I am saying it logically leads to someone behaving/believing like an atheist.

    PRETERISM'S PREMISES
    Historical Christianity either:

    Purposely hid preterist interpretation for over 2000 years
    Ignorantly misunderstood basic eschatology for over 2000 years
    http://unpreterist.blogspot.com/2014...onclusion.html


    Another danger of preterism is that it leads to liberal political views that reject traditional Christian values, as in the Libertarian party. Famous atheists like magician Penn Gillette are Libertarians. The folowing video shows how Christian values are made fun of.

    https://youtu.be/S4BY5ZGurCU
    The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

  • #2
    Are you talking about partial or complete preterism? Futurism is relatively recent...
    And it'll all pan out in the end. Escatology is confusing. Best to wait and find out later which view was correct, because it's not of primary importance.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eschaton View Post
      I'm a long time member of TWEB. In the old days I asserted that preterism, taken to its logical conclusions, can lead to atheism. It turns out I wasn't just whistling dixie.

      Famous Christian apologist William Lane Craig gives a personal expeirience where one of his colleagues was led to atheism by preterism. It is at 8:30 of his video below. He also gives a critique of preterism in the next video.

      https://youtu.be/tRgSBmQfL_A

      https://youtu.be/a7NSBjGy7m0

      Long time preterist Roderick E. puts it this way.



      http://unpreterist.blogspot.com/2014...onclusion.html
      Roderick is talking in the context of hyperpreterism. Not sure if Craig is doing the same, since I'm not going to watch videos at work, even on my lunch break.
      Another danger of preterism is that it leads to liberal political views that reject traditional Christian values, as in the Libertarian party. Famous atheists like magician Penn Gillette are Libertarians. The folowing video shows how Christian values are made fun of.

      https://youtu.be/S4BY5ZGurCU
      This is a complete fallacy. How in the world does preterism lead to liberal political views? Also, liberal is not even close to synonymous with libertarian. Is this just a lame attempt to smear Dee Dee by guilt through association?
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        All I know is that everything I see about libertarian seems to be against Christian values. Check some of Penn Gillettte's videos on Libertarianism. People need to know the truth. As far as dizzle is concerned, people can check her Youtube channel.
        The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

        Comment


        • #5
          I think preterism, at least the partial preterism that I (and I assume Roderick Edwards without going heavily into his website) hold to, taken to its logical conclusions, sees evidence of the inspiration of scripture through the historical fulfillment of prophetic passages, especially in the accounts of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

          I am a strong skeptic, and was originally an atheist before being convicted by the Holy Spirit of my sin and need of a savior. Several friends tried to convert me through apologetics, most of which was nonsense (and I still think was nonsense). I at first believed in dispensensationalism and the rapture because that was what I was taught. Not long after that I heard somebody question what Jesus meant about raising believers up at the last day. That was back in 1968, and totally altered my way of thinking about prophecy. I thought I was one of the very few that thought that way, and never heard about preterism until around ten years ago, when I learned, among other things, about this website.

          Yes, I question anything and everything, with the exception of the Word of God, and I question what a lot of preachers, teachers and commentaries say about that. But, guided by the Holy Spirit, who is my teacher, I have faith in Scripture, including prophecy. I don't question "everything we've ever considered as 'Christian'.

          I agree with the premises that historical Christianity has either hid preterism or ignorantly misunderstood basic eschatology, at least for the past 185 years. Maybe longer. I think that what has been popularized among Christians in books and movies is sheer nonsense.

          If I understand Roderick Evans, the acceptance of hyperpreterism (and the rejection of the nonsense that passes for prophecy) is the first step of a logical sequence that ultimately leads to the total rejection of the Christian faith itself. Maybe that could be the case of a person who was not a sincere believer in the first place. And I have seen many false professions in my life. But a person who is sincerely saved, born again, baptized, led and taught by the Holy Spirit, can and should question all things yet still be secure in his faith.
          When I Survey....

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          • #6
            Certain futurists on this board have a bizarre tendency to try to blame everything bad in the world on preterism. This latest attempt shouldn't have even been dignified with a response.
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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            • #7
              Isn't this a restricted area? Never mind, apparently you just have to believe that God exists to post here. Or do you have to accept the gift of salvation also?
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                All I know is that everything I see about libertarian seems to be against Christian values. Check some of Penn Gillettte's videos on Libertarianism. People need to know the truth. As far as dizzle is concerned, people can check her Youtube channel.
                So because one prominent libertarian is anti-Christian, libertarianism is inherently anti-Christian? A couple of the atheists who post here are Republicans. By your logic...
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  Isn't this a restricted area? Never mind, apparently you just have to believe that God exists to post here. Or do you have to accept the gift of salvation also?
                  All theists are welcome, but the discussion must be about orthodox Christian topics within eschatology according to the guidelines page.
                  Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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                  • #10
                    Politics, schmolitics. I don't really see why Christianity should be tied to it. All politicians do a terrible job compared to Jesus. Of course, Jesus is a better person than anyone ever could be...
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                      All I know is that everything I see about libertarian seems to be against Christian values. Check some of Penn Gillettte's videos on Libertarianism. People need to know the truth. As far as dizzle is concerned, people can check her Youtube channel.
                      Ha. Haha. Hahahahahahahahahaha.

                      That is all.

                      /conservative Christian preterist libertarian

                      "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
                      "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
                      Katniss Everdeen


                      Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

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                      • #12
                        If you check Roderick's website I think you will see he is talking mainly about partial preterism. He was a partial preterist for 15 years before he rejected it. Sam Frost is named as another who followed the same path. I don't think Roderick ever accepted full preterism. I think Craig is talking about partial preterism as well, because he criticizes a coming in judgment in 70AD. Of course both modern preterism and futurism were introduced by the Jesuits to counter Protestant historicism in the 18th century.
                        The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why does it matter? As long as one doesn't deny the final resurrection of the dead(physical, glorified bodies, ) and a final judgement, I don't see how the timing of the fulfillment of any other prophecies really matters. The important thing is to remember that God is ultimately in control of the good ending/beginning?
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What matters is if Christians follow preterism's logical conclusions they are in danger of becoming atheists.
                            The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                              What matters is if Christians follow preterism's logical conclusions they are in danger of becoming atheists.
                              How does that even follow? Does it really matter if Jesus was predicting the 70AD fall of Jerusalem or some far, far future tribulateion? Or something else, since the idea of a far future tribulation is relatively recent.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

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