Genesis 2:2 He rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken.

[tabibito]

Campbell died some 30 years ago, so he doesn't count as a "current scholar," and therefore not one of the "more and more" scholars that hold views about anything. His area of interest reflected pretty much the new age general deism to some extent, and that area only peripherally touches on fields relevant to the historicity of Christ. Not that I count it particularly relevant (I've known a couple of people without tertiary qualifications who could run rings around professors), but Campbell didn't hold a PhD.

Surely you could propose a better start.

[JimL]

Campbell died some 30 years ago, so he doesn't count as a "current scholar," and therefore not one of the "more and more" scholars that hold views about anything. His area of interest reflected pretty much the new age general deism to some extent, and that area only peripherally touches on fields relevant to the historicity of Christ. Not that I count it particularly relevant (I've known a couple of people without tertiary qualifications who could run rings around professors), but Campbell didn't hold a PhD.

By myth I don't mean to say that jesus himself, the preacher, did not exist as a human being, that is still a matter of debate, what I mean to say is that the history of his life as told in the NT is a myth. You show me a scholar who believes that Jesus walked on water, fed thousands with 2 fish, talked with demons and cast them into a herd of swine, that long dead saints climbed out of their graves and went about town conversing with the folk etc etc. and I'll show you someones whose beliefs have nothing to do with their scholarly qualifications.

[37818]

By myth I don't mean to say that jesus himself, the preacher, did not exist as a human being, that is still a matter of debate, what I mean to say is that the history of his life as told in the NT is a myth. You show me a scholar who believes that Jesus walked on water, fed thousands with 2 fish, talked with demons and cast them into a herd of swine, that long dead saints climbed out of their graves and went about town conversing with the folk etc etc. and I'll show you someones whose beliefs have nothing to do with their scholarly qualifications.

So are you arguing, scholars who believe such are not scholars?

[JimL]

So are you arguing, scholars who believe such are not scholars?

Well, you can call them scholars if you like, I'd call them idiots. There is no reason for a scholar to believe such things simply because it is written in the bible alone.

[37818]

Thats not just the way I perceive it, thats the way it actually is. The first human being didn't exist until some 2.5 million years ago, thats basically 14 billion years after the beginning of the creation (if you want to call it that) process. In other words, we humans just got here! In order to fit that to the biblical account of creation, then each 1 of the biblical 6 days of creation had to have equaled approximately 666,666,667 earth days, you know, wherein evening comes and morning follows for each day.
What could "evening" and "morning" even mean under those circumstances?

There are those who understand those "evening" and "morning" to mark each of the Earth days of that week. What is unique is the mention of God resting in the 7th day of what He uniquely had created in that week. The solar system having cooled some 4.5 billion years before then.

[rogue06]

By myth I don't mean to say that jesus himself, the preacher, did not exist as a human being, that is still a matter of debate

About as much as the argument that Abraham Lincoln is a mythical character.

Lincolnists1.jpg

[JimL]

There are those who understand those "evening" and "morning" to mark each of the Earth days of that week. What is unique is the mention of God resting in the 7th day of what He uniquely had created in that week. The solar system having cooled some 4.5 billion years before then.

So it took god, who btw is said to be non temporal, nearly 14 billion years of creating before finally getting around to creating human beings on earth?

[rogue06]

So it took god, who btw is said to be non temporal, nearly 14 billion years of creating before finally getting around to creating human beings on earth?

Time is irrelevant to something that existed before time existed (I Corinthians 2:7; II Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2).

[JimL]

Time is irrelevant to something that existed before time existed (I Corinthians 2:7; II Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2).

Yes, except that such a statement makes no sense when the supposed creation process obviously takes time. Time can't be both relevant to the creation process and irrelevant to the creator.

[Tassman]

Time is irrelevant to something that existed before time existed (I Corinthians 2:7; II Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2).

Richard Dawkins would disagree with you: "It is nonsense to argue that something exists outside of space and time? When say something "exists", we mean that it can be observed, or its effects can be experienced in space and time. If one asserts that god exists "outside time," this leads to a conclusion that he couldn't do anything, including creating the universe, because time is the measure of change. If there is no time, there is no change. If there is no change, there is no action. If there is no action, there is no creation. If God were to exist outside of time, he would be impotent to do anything at all!"

[rogue06]

Yes, except that such a statement makes no sense when the supposed creation process obviously takes time. Time can't be both relevant to the creation process and irrelevant to the creator.

It makes complete since if it doesn't matter to the creator how much time passes. If, as Psalm 90:4 puts it, if for God "a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night" (or as II Peter 3:8 explains, "with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"). Time just isn't a concern.

Moreover, keep in mind, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God created the earth and surrounding universe for us but rather that He created it for His own purpose (Isaiah 46:10) so it really does not matter at what point to an eternal God when we come along.

[rogue06]

Richard Dawkins would disagree with you: "It is nonsense to argue that something exists outside of space and time? When say something "exists", we mean that it can be observed, or its effects can be experienced in space and time. If one asserts that god exists "outside time," this leads to a conclusion that he couldn't do anything, including creating the universe, because time is the measure of change. If there is no time, there is no change. If there is no change, there is no action. If there is no action, there is no creation. If God were to exist outside of time, he would be impotent to do anything at all!"

Dawkins ignorantly conflates our perspective that of God's who being eternal and omnipotent and omniscient it is almost certainly very different . For God time might be something more like a picture where He could be seeing everything at the same time.

[JimL]

It makes complete since if it doesn't matter to the creator how much time passes. If, as Psalm 90:4 puts it, if for God "a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night" (or as II Peter 3:8 explains, "with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"). Time just isn't a concern.

That time doesn't matter to someone, including to god, doesn't make time itself irrelevant. If time exists then it is relevant whether either you, I, or god, says that it matters to us or not.

Moreover, keep in mind, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God created the earth and surrounding universe for us but rather that He created it for His own purpose (Isaiah 46:10) so it really does not matter at what point to an eternal God when we come along.

Oh please, the whole bible is about gods purpose for man and the creation of earth as his place. According to the bible that was his own purpose. So, it kinda does matter that we humans didn't come along until 14 billion years after the beginning.

[Tassman]

Dawkins ignorantly conflates our perspective that of God's who being eternal and omnipotent and omniscient it is almost certainly very different . For God time might be something more like a picture where He could be seeing everything at the same time.

Not even an eternal, omniscient, omnipotent deity can do what is logically impossible. If God were to exist outside of time, he would be impotent to do anything at all!

[37818]

Not even an eternal, omniscient, omnipotent deity can do what is logically impossible. If God were to exist outside of time, he would be impotent to do anything at all!

If you were to understand Uncaused Existence precedes all caused things. And even [uncaused] logic is contingent on the Uncaused Existence. Oh, that is right, you do not want to allow that concept of God.