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Ethical naivete?

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  • Ethical naivete?

    The New York Times (eeeek!) interviewed Mark Galli, the soon-to-be-former editor of Christianity Today (eeeek!). Galli https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

    Is morality today all that important? I remember the ministry of Chuck Colson, who emphasized worldview and ethical teaching. We have heard that Billy Graham voted for Trump, from which we are to infer that Billy would still be enamored of Trump's actions and ethics. But is that fair to Billy Graham?

    Do Christians follow the example of elites? "Christianity Yesterday"?

    Have Christians struck a Faustian bargain?

  • #2
    Christians, leadership wise, struck a faustian bargain in the 80s, but the laity did with Trump and the only "derangement system" is that Christians still support someone who, by a pretty literal definition is the anti Christ. Not in a supernatural sense, of course, I'm an atheist, but there isn't any one individual I can think of in our government who so obviously and completely is the antithesis of the example of Jesus. An example I still kind of like, for the most part, but I doubt any of the Christians here will take any heed at my admonishment at their worship of a man that encapsulates the seven deadly sins

    Christianity is a religion that has stood for 2000 years. What are the odds that a philandering rapist and sexual predator who had 5 kids with 3 wives that he all cheated on whose been fined 27 million dollars for fraud *just while President* is who Christianity Today should be protecting?

    Billy Graham died in 2018, who cares? A Republican presidents going to get like 45% of the vote regardless, plenty of people thought he'd rise to the occassion. He hasn't. His moral failings have gotten worse over the course of his presidency leading to the summary execution of a foreign leader in such a manner that theres a good chance this turns into a shooting war.

    Take it from this atheist,

    Trump is one and he doesn't give a damn about any of you. He's a classic narcissist and, like, I dont even care that Pence gets to be President and he'd fit in right with all of you much better than Trump.

    Comment


    • #3
      Remember Obama? The kinds of things that Fox would use as scandals?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...0M&app=desktop

      Man I wish we could be that nit picky about Trump but I have no idea whether he has marines do weird looking stuff because there's children in cages along the southern border, the government is trying to revoke TPS status for a bunch of people whose countries we blew to piece or that was destroyed by disaster and not to mention the trade war, or all the presidents campaign staff going to jail, or all the leaks about insane things happening in the west wing.

      Man, I would shoot someone to be able to just giggle at one of theses scandals like I used to be able to like when Fox got onto him for wearing a tan suit or no flag lapel or, oh yeah the best one, Dijon mustard. And thats Fox on Obama! You can't really say Fox was taking it easy on him and they actually went with that!

      Man, wouldn't it be nice if our leader *just* made marines hold umbrellas over his head when he was giving a speech and that it gets to dominate the news cycle for 3 whole days?

      I miss those days

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
        Remember Obama? The kinds of things that Fox would use as scandals?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...0M&app=desktop

        Man I wish we could be that nit picky about Trump but I have no idea whether he has marines do weird looking stuff because there's children in cages along the southern border, the government is trying to revoke TPS status for a bunch of people whose countries we blew to piece or that was destroyed by disaster and not to mention the trade war, or all the presidents campaign staff going to jail, or all the leaks about insane things happening in the west wing.

        Man, I would shoot someone to be able to just giggle at one of theses scandals like I used to be able to like when Fox got onto him for wearing a tan suit or no flag lapel or, oh yeah the best one, Dijon mustard. And thats Fox on Obama! You can't really say Fox was taking it easy on him and they actually went with that!

        Man, wouldn't it be nice if our leader *just* made marines hold umbrellas over his head when he was giving a speech and that it gets to dominate the news cycle for 3 whole days?

        I miss those days
        Effete liberals use Dijon mustard, eat French fries, and sip Bordeaux wine. Red blooded American men don't idolize the French.

        We just salute North Koreans.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
          Effete liberals use Dijon mustard, eat French fries, and sip Bordeaux wine. Red blooded American men don't idolize the French.

          We just salute North Koreans.
          Yeah, and knowing how much trumps trips cost hearing the numbers quoted in that link are just hilariously low

          Gotta remember to not wear a shirt because only dude with pecs get to run a country

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            The New York Times (eeeek!) interviewed Mark Galli, the soon-to-be-former editor of Christianity Today (eeeek!). Galli https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

            Is morality today all that important? I remember the ministry of Chuck Colson, who emphasized worldview and ethical teaching. We have heard that Billy Graham voted for Trump, from which we are to infer that Billy would still be enamored of Trump's actions and ethics. But is that fair to Billy Graham?

            Do Christians follow the example of elites? "Christianity Yesterday"?

            Have Christians struck a Faustian bargain?
            Those who are careless of their ethical standards, are not Christians. They may be baptised and go regularly to church, but they do not follow The Lord and they have been forgotten by Him.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #7
              Moral impeccability os a requirement to be a Christian? Usually that argument comes from a Christian!

              I have to ask, do atheist see any need for moral decency? Does one lose his atheist card for moral failings?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                The New York Times (eeeek!) interviewed Mark Galli, the soon-to-be-former editor of Christianity Today (eeeek!). Galli https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

                Is morality today all that important? I remember the ministry of Chuck Colson, who emphasized worldview and ethical teaching. We have heard that Billy Graham voted for Trump, from which we are to infer that Billy would still be enamored of Trump's actions and ethics. But is that fair to Billy Graham?

                Do Christians follow the example of elites? "Christianity Yesterday"?

                Have Christians struck a Faustian bargain?
                That bolded part --- I don't think BG was ever "enamored of Trump's actions and ethics" - I think that's an unfair view of BG's support for Trump. I would think BG saw Trump's usefulness in SPITE of his "actions and ethics".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  Moral impeccability os a requirement to be a Christian? Usually that argument comes from a Christian!
                  Morality should always be a goal to which Christians strive and grow.

                  I have to ask, do atheist see any need for moral decency? Does one lose his atheist card for moral failings?
                  My best friend's dad was an atheist, and one of the most "moral and decent" men I've ever known. He simply wasn't at war with God like some atheists are.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    That bolded part --- I don't think BG was ever "enamored of Trump's actions and ethics" - I think that's an unfair view of BG's support for Trump. I would think BG saw Trump's usefulness in SPITE of his "actions and ethics".
                    I meant it as approval of Trump, which Franklin Graham seems to have meant when he said that his father voted for Trump.

                    Galli acknowledged the difficult choice faced in Nov 2016. But he also recognized that does not account for the subsequent defenses and arguments made since then.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      I meant it as approval of Trump, which Franklin Graham seems to have meant when he said that his father voted for Trump.
                      Yeah, but I don't know that it was because Trump was all that great, or that Hillary was all that bad. I never really looked into "behind the scenes" with BG on Trump.

                      Galli acknowledged the difficult choice faced in Nov 2016. But he also recognized that does not account for the subsequent defenses and arguments made since then.
                      I, for one, have never, and will never, defend Trump's moral faults or failures. Neither do I hate him. Therefore, according to the loonies on the left, I'm a "Trumpster".
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        The New York Times (eeeek!) interviewed Mark Galli, the soon-to-be-former editor of Christianity Today (eeeek!). Galli https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

                        Is morality today all that important? I remember the ministry of Chuck Colson, who emphasized worldview and ethical teaching. We have heard that Billy Graham voted for Trump, from which we are to infer that Billy would still be enamored of Trump's actions and ethics. But is that fair to Billy Graham?

                        Do Christians follow the example of elites? "Christianity Yesterday"?

                        Have Christians struck a Faustian bargain?
                        I think Trump's real and perceived failings have been overblown by his critics. It can't simply be that he made a mistake, or he's a hypocrite, or he has a different idea about how a president should conduct himself, or whatever. Rather, it has to be because "He's the evils!!!1!!1!" Case in point, the thread about his golfing habits. Rather than simply saying something uncontroversial like, "The man's a hypocrite," the lefties here are accusing him of breaking the law because he chooses to play golf at his own resorts, which is of course an absurd accusation. We spend so much time talking anti-Trumpers off the ledge that what Trump is actually doing seems to get lost in the noise, and then the next "crisis" rears its head, and the cycle repeats. There's no balance in any discussion dealing with Trump, and it's gotten tiresome.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I think Trump's real and perceived failings have been overblown by his critics. It can't simply be that he made a mistake, or he's a hypocrite, or he has a different idea about how a president should conduct himself, or whatever. Rather, it has to be because "He's the evils!!!1!!1!" Case in point, the thread about his golfing habits. Rather than simply saying something uncontroversial like, "The man's a hypocrite," the lefties here are accusing him of breaking the law because he chooses to play golf at his own resorts, which is of course an absurd accusation. We spend so much time talking anti-Trumpers off the ledge that what Trump is actually doing seems to get lost in the noise, and then the next "crisis" rears its head, and the cycle repeats. There's no balance in any discussion dealing with Trump, and it's gotten tiresome.
                          Quite good example of the points others have made.

                          We are talking about a man who separted innocent children from their parents, lies, has seemingly misused his power, talks in dehumanizing terms about others, expresses himself in ways boardering to racism. And MM thinks "lefties" are the real problem. I fear we are past the point where it is only naivete.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                            Quite good example of the points others have made.

                            We are talking about a man who separted innocent children from their parents, lies, has seemingly misused his power, talks in dehumanizing terms about others, expresses himself in ways boardering to racism. And MM thinks "lefties" are the real problem. I fear we are past the point where it is only naivete.
                            Thank you for proving my point, Chuck.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dennis Prager summed it up for us:

                              Source: https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2019/12/28/Dennis-Prager-A-response-to-the-editor-of-Christianity-Today/stories/201912280007



                              So, permit me to inform Mr. Galli and all the other people who consider themselves conservative and/​or Christian that our support for the president is entirely moral.
                              • To us, putting pressure on the Iranian regime — one of the most evil and dangerous regimes on Earth — by getting out of the Iran nuclear deal made by former President Barack Obama is a moral issue. Even New York Times columnist Bret Stephens, who loathes Mr. Trump, has written how important the president’s rejection of the Obama-Iran agreement has been.
                              • To us, enabling millions of black Americans to find work — resulting in the lowest black unemployment rate ever recorded — is a moral issue.
                              • To us, more Americans than ever being employed and almost 4 million Americans freed from reliance on food stamps is a moral issue.
                              • To us, appointing more conservative judges than any president in history — over the same period of time — is a moral issue. That whether the courts, including the Supreme Court, are dominated by the left or by conservatives is dismissed by Mr. Galli as “political poker” makes one question not only Galli’s moral thinking but also his moral theology.
                              • To us, moving the American embassy to Israel’s capital city, Jerusalem — something promised by almost every presidential candidate — is a moral issue, not to mention profoundly courageous. And courage is a moral virtue.
                              • To us, increasing the U.S. military budget — after the severe cuts of the previous eight years — is a moral issue. As conservatives see it, the American military is the world’s greatest guarantor of world peace.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

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