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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    As a general principle, Democrats strongly oppose anything that could eliminate voter fraud.
    That's because the notion of voter fraud has been proven over and over to be a fraud itself. The GOP doesn't want to eliminate voter fraud, they simply want to eliminate as many of the opposition electorate from voting and have been scheming for decades to that end.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      The "spitting you out of my mouth" is about lukewarm vs hot or cold - and is not connected to the "I never knew you" (not "you never knew me).
      I used the quotes because I think they were both apropo to the discussion considering a christians stance on the kind of government they support, because the kind of government they support points to how they actually think, or care about the teachings of Jesus, in my opinion.




      Yeah, you're a shining example of how others should be treated.
      Yes, and you, as a christian, should support a government that cares for the well being of people as well.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        I used the quotes because I think they were both apropo to the discussion considering a christians stance on the kind of government they support, because the kind of government they support points to how they actually think, or care about the teachings of Jesus, in my opinion.
        But ya got it all backwards.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          But ya got it all backwards.
          It is those supporting Trump, i.e. his conservative Christian base, who have "got it all backwards" when it comes to the "teachings of Jesus" in my opinion.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Are you saying that in Australia, you get fined if you don't vote?
            You get fined if you don’t turn up to get your name checked off. You can leave after that without voting but you won’t get your sausage sizzle. For $2.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              It is those supporting Trump, i.e. his conservative Christian base, who have "got it all backwards" when it comes to the "teachings of Jesus" in my opinion.
              Yeah, I'm shocked.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                It is those supporting Trump, i.e. his conservative Christian base, who have "got it all backwards" when it comes to the "teachings of Jesus" in my opinion.
                Here is how Buttigieg has expressed it:

                One way to look at it is an almost literal deal with the devil. Certain long-held conservative political objectives are being satisfied, and they are not worried about the rest. At a deeper level you have to ask whether the bottom line here is religious or whether it is political. If it is political, it doesn’t matter what I have to say about why religion might lead them to a different place. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...754_story.html
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  I used the quotes because I think they were both apropo to the discussion considering a christians stance on the kind of government they support, because the kind of government they support points to how they actually think, or care about the teachings of Jesus, in my opinion.
                  Nope, I don't accept the premise that good personal policy necessarily makes for good government policy. I also don't want a secular government trying to enforce its own interpretation of scripture, and I can't imagine why all of you non-Christians think it's such a grand idea considering your low opinion of the Bible.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Nope, I don't accept the premise that good personal policy necessarily makes for good government policy. I also don't want a secular government trying to enforce its own interpretation of scripture, and I can't imagine why all of you non-Christians think it's such a grand idea considering your low opinion of the Bible.
                    I am not hearing anyone support any government enforcing its own interpretation of scripture. What I am hearing is people asking for basic human decency, fair and moral treatment of the weak, the hungry and the strangers. Since this is integral to Christianity one wonders why so many (who are conveniently white and American) Christians are supporters of the opposite.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                      I am not hearing anyone support any government enforcing its own interpretation of scripture.
                      Then maybe non-Christiana should stop cynically quoting scripture in political debates.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                        Here is how Buttigieg has expressed it:
                        Yes, Christians should DEFINITELY get their explanation of Scripture from one who is living a lifestyle totally opposed by Scripture.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Then maybe non-Christiana should stop cynically quoting scripture in political debates.
                          So it is cynical to quote the Bible when the weak, the hungry and the stranger are treated in inhuman ways? Seems the inhuman part is when those who claim to believe in the words of Jesus hide under a political cover and support policies resulting in the opposite of what Jesus and basic human decency would result in. But then again, you need to use the words in in the opposite meaning when you try to convinve others that wrong is right.

                          I guess your use of the word "cynical" about those who point to the unfair treatment of other people follow along the line of your admitted strategy:

                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I want to respond to this: the point of insults used in this fashion is not necessarily o compel someone to listen to you but to publicly dishonor them so that other people will be dissuaded from listening to them. Let's put it this way: do you think Jesus' use of challenge/riposte was for the benefit of the Pharisees, or for their followers who were closely watching the debate?
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yes, Christians should DEFINITELY get their explanation of Scripture from one who is living a lifestyle totally opposed by Scripture.
                            I knew someone would go for the ad hominem. If only you had the arguments to prove him wrong you would probably do so instead of pointing fingers at the person. I know I have made this point many times but that is because some of you seem to be rather stuck in the ad hominem trap, so blame yourself if you find it tiresome.

                            Here is your new chance: Show why what he says is wrong. If you cannot I am not interested in hearing more personal attacks.
                            Last edited by Charles; 01-18-2020, 11:15 AM.
                            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Yes, Christians should DEFINITELY get their explanation of Scripture from one who is living a lifestyle totally opposed by Scripture.
                              Buttigieg's lifestyle and rhetoric are far more in line with Scriptural themes than most of the pro-Trump Christians I see talkin' here and elsewhere. If your metric for anti-Scriptural behavior goes to "is gay" rather than "is cruel", it's your heart that needs realignment toward the Christian God.

                              --Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                                So it is cynical to quote the Bible when the weak, the hungry and the stranger are treated in inhuman ways?
                                No, dumbass, it is cynical to quote only the parts of scripture you happen to agree with while rejecting everything else. I mean, as long as you're cracking open a Bible, why not pay attention to the passages about repentance from sin and reconciliation with God? Oh, right, you can't use it to browbeat Christians into agreeing with your political opinions, so you toss it aside. How silly of me.

                                This is how I look at it:

                                It is good for a person to use his resources to help others, but it is not good for the government to forcibly take that person's resources to help others. As I've said before, good personal policy is not necessarily good government policy.

                                But go ahead and keep quoting from a book whose message you ultimately reject if you think it will manipulate me into suddenly agreeing with your politics.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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