Originally posted by Christianbookworm
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Eschatology 201 Guidelines
This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.
Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.
However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.
End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.
Millennialism- post-, pre- a-
Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.
From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.
OK folks, let's roll!
Forum Rules: Here
Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.
However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.
End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.
Millennialism- post-, pre- a-
Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.
From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.
OK folks, let's roll!
Forum Rules: Here
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Why are some people so dogmatic about ttheir eschatological views?
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Originally posted by Darfius View Post. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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I am pretty much the same way CBW. I don't really care if Jesus comes back tomorrow or in a thousand years. I just know that we all will meet Jesus in our own lifetimes (or to be precise, at the end of our lifetimes) so even if Jesus doesn't come back to earth for another thousands years, I will be meeting him in a few decades. And so will everyone else alive right now.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI am pretty much the same way CBW. I don't really care if Jesus comes back tomorrow or in a thousand years. I just know that we all will meet Jesus in our own lifetimes (or to be precise, at the end of our lifetimes) so even if Jesus doesn't come back to earth for another thousands years, I will be meeting him in a few decades. And so will everyone else alive right now.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by thewriteranon View PostI hope to get another ten decades or so.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostWell, they certainly are showing their lack of scriptural knowledge, which makes it clear that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.
They also don't know scripture says that every eye will see Him return, so it is a physical return, not a "spiritual" one.
Some people do exactly the same nowadays. They look at some notable news item or social trend or prominent person, root around in Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, St Matthew, St Luke and Acts, work out that the bad weather or the price of oil or the letters in the name of the current POTUS or some mangled translation of what the Pope said is a sign of the end, apply some arcane arithmetical calculation, dig up some obscure calendric system, and hey presto, they arrive at a date in the not too distant future. The date comes, nothing happens, and Christians as a body are left looking like credulous idiots. A little time goes by, and some other, equally confident joker pops up. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.
Those who concoct these schemes and dates always "know", sometimes to the day, when the Lord will come or the Resurection will occur, because they always have some bright explanation for getting around what Our Lord said. Critics of their bright ideas can always be conceptualised as the "mockers" in 2 Peter 3, and disregarded accordingly, leaving the authors of these schemes to sell the books they write proving that this scheme is correct, even though so many others have been falsified by events.Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 10-08-2016, 08:50 PM. Reason: Corrections to paragraphing and spacing; word omitted
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Originally posted by RJAh, but that "proves" He will come back in an age of universally accessible broadcasting, TV, & the WWW. Which is now or later, because it was not possible before. Which, with verses like Dan.12.4 - "But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase" added to the mixture, "proves" that TV, the WWW, radio, newsprint & other such media will record the Second Coming.
Put together these technologies, that verse, and belief that the Second Coming is imminent - as in "totally possible by just after midnight tonight" - and such predictions are not likely to be discouraged. Any number of political events were treated by the Victorians as signs of the Second Coming - the rise of Napoleon III, the Crimean War, the definition of the Immaculate Conception, the 1855 Concordat with Austria, the Indian Mutiny, the Risorgimento, the loss of the Papal States,the definition of Papal Infallibility, to name a few.
Some people do exactly the same nowadays. They look at some notable news item or social trend or prominent person, root around in Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, St Matthew, St Luke and Acts, work out that the bad weather or the price of oil or the letters in the name of the current POTUS or some mangled translation of what the Pope said is a sign of the end, apply some arcane arithmetical calculation, dig up some obscure calendric system, and hey presto, they arrive at a date in the not too distant future. The date comes, nothing happens, and Christians as a body are left looking like credulous idiots. A little time goes by, and some other, equally confident joker pops up. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.
Those who concoct these schemes and dates always "know", sometimes to the day, when the Lord will come or the Resurection will occur, because they always have some bright explanation for getting around what Our Lord said. Critics of their bright ideas can always be conceptualised as the "mockers" in 2 Peter 3, and disregarded accordingly, leaving the authors of these schemes to sell the books they write proving that this scheme is correct, even though so many others have been falsified by events.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostYeah it does, and those people keep claiming to know something Jesus said it would be impossible to know.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI've seen some premillenial dispensation futurists be very dogmatic about their position. Hopefully not to the point of claiming you can't be a Christian unless you agree with them, but they do seem to think you have to agree with them to be a good Christian. I'm pretty agnostic about what will happen before the Second coming of Jesus. If most of the prophecies were fulfilled in the first century(aside from the Second Coming and Final Resurrection, duh), that would be okay. If the planet goes down the tubes before Jesus returns, so be it. I'd like to know why some people think Jesus will return in our lifetimes. Haven't people been saying that for nearly two millennia?
I submit that it is really hard to ascertain which among the churches is of God. But the prophecies, as supposed, would validate the true church and it's doctrines.
Rev 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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A great deal, Parakletos, of what you are calling schism is nothing of the sort. If I am a futurist and you a preterist what matter is that if we both love the same Lord Jesus? Differing interpretations that do not call into question the fundamentals of the faith are not schism, just proof that we are not omnicient.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostA great deal, Parakletos, of what you are calling schism is nothing of the sort. If I am a futurist and you a preterist what matter is that if we both love the same Lord Jesus? Differing interpretations that do not call into question the fundamentals of the faith are not schism, just proof that we are not omnicient.
Now, there are a lot of these Jews still waiting for the Messiah who are better than many esteemed Christians, but we(Jews and Christians) are divided in many ways, would you really think that the kingdom of God is acceptable in such a state of division and confusion? Ultimately we have to be in "one mind", as Paul wants us to attain. One must make a good study how small matter of division brought wars, loss of lives, and loss of morale and trusts amongst us, looking at the division in views does not necessarily mean it is not destructive. There are consequences of holding different beliefs. Even ignorance itself is destructive. If we let those ignorant have their say and ways, we will be in chaos, how much more of having different/contradictory beliefs?
Now, on the issue of omniscient, knowing the destructive nature of not having "one mind", it is not an excuse that we continue and should go on and let ourselves be as it is and let ourselves end up to destruction. The very nature of such lack of omniscience will lead us to death; as Jesus said that if the blind leads the blind they will both fall on the ditch. Never does God lead us to walk as blind, anyone who are led to speak of any eschatological point of view must have an anointing from God. And anyone who speak of false/erroneous prophecies will be judged speaking of the word of God "presumptuously," peaking only of his own. So our positions as futurist, or preterist, or anything else, is no small matter.
Now, majority of christians possess ignorance, and there is no way that these people, because of ignorance, can learn from preaching, or of teaching doctrines, but they will be saved by believing the prophesies and of the prophets and leaders that is being witnessed in those prophesies.
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