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Even Atheists Think That Atheists Are More Immoral.

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  • Originally posted by Charles View Post
    I would say you are without excuse if you go for the idea that those who never heard of Christ would be punished eternally and then go on to praise the God behind that idea.
    You are assuming that those who never heard the Gospel would have repented if they did.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      You are assuming that those who never heard the Gospel would have repented if they did.
      At least they could have. But anyway I find the idea of eternal pain morally disgusting, mostly for those who never had a chance but generally it is an absurd and sick idea in all cases. Are you sure you are fine with this idea, seer? I mean, you praise the God who created the reality in which this is happening? Is that really so beautiful?
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
        At least they could have. But anyway I find the idea of eternal pain morally disgusting, mostly for those who never had a chance but generally it is an absurd and sick idea in all cases. Are you sure you are fine with this idea, seer? I mean, you praise the God who created the reality in which this is happening? Is that really so beautiful?
        Charles, what you consider absurd, disgusting or sick has no relevance since it is based on severely limited understanding and knowledge. God sees the big picture, and He will be what He always is - just and good. And since He is all knowing He knows who would repent and who wouldn't. Let me put it this way - everybody who sincerely wants God will find Him.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
          Why is this thread in civics again..?
          Started off as a discussion about a study on how people view various other POV's. Side tracked rather predictably thereafter....
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

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          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            Charles, what you consider absurd, disgusting or sick has no relevance since it is based on severely limited understanding and knowledge. God sees the big picture, and He will be what He always is - just and good. And since He is all knowing He knows who would repent and who wouldn't. Let me put it this way - everybody who sincerely wants God will find Him.
            “The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored”. ― Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life.

            Does it really matter what the “big picture is? It’s a hell of a way to run the show.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Charles, what you consider absurd, disgusting or sick has no relevance since it is based on severely limited understanding and knowledge. God sees the big picture, and He will be what He always is - just and good. And since He is all knowing He knows who would repent and who wouldn't. Let me put it this way - everybody who sincerely wants God will find Him.
              What you appeal to is the idea that I should give up any idea of justice when confronted with the idea of hell and accept an idea that some God who allows for more suffering than this world has ever seen (which is far more than enough to say the least) is just and good without further explanation. My position remains: If there is a good God this is the last thing he would want us to do, and hell is the last idea he would want us to ascribe to him.

              Seer, you have been given the ability to reflect and to consider. I think you are the one who is without excuse if you go for these ideas.
              Last edited by Charles; 08-12-2017, 03:32 AM.
              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                What you appeal to is the idea that I should give up any idea of justice when confronted with the idea of hell and accept an idea that some God who allows for more suffering than this world has ever seen (which is far more than enough to say the least) is just and good without further explanation. My position remains: If there is a good God this is the last thing he would want us to do, and hell is the last idea he would want us to ascribe to him.
                No Charles, what I'm saying is that your idea of justice is relative to the culture you were raised in, others have no problem seeing hell as just. And like I said we have a limited understanding, we do not have all the facts. So forgive me if I don't take your opinion as gospel.

                Seer, you have been given the ability to reflect and to consider. I think you are the one who is without excuse if you go for these ideas.
                Like we discussed in the past Charles there are different views of hell, that go back to the early Church. Even your buddy Kant believed that punishment after death was necessary to make sense of morality. But whatever that punishment turns out to be, whether eternal or temporal, I don't want to experience it.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post


                  Like we discussed in the past Charles there are different views of hell, that go back to the early Church. Even your buddy Kant believed that punishment after death was necessary to make sense of morality. But whatever that punishment turns out to be, whether eternal or temporal, I don't want to experience it.
                  Reward or punishment after death is not necessary to make sense of morality. The Pavlovian ‘carrot & stick’ approach might work well in training dogs, but for humans morality is its own reward. To say otherwise is to devalue morality.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Reward or punishment after death is not necessary to make sense of morality. The Pavlovian ‘carrot & stick’ approach might work well in training dogs, but for humans morality is its own reward. To say otherwise is to devalue morality.
                    So a Stalin murders millions and dies a good old age, and that is just, that makes sense of morality?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      So a Stalin murders millions and dies a good old age, and that is just, that makes sense of morality?
                      Rewards and punishments for behaviour are productive when are socialising our children. But, threatening postmortem punishment to an atheist like Stalin is not going to stop his atrocities, just as an atheist who is good and kind is not going to be affected by the promise of a postmortem pie-in-the-sky reward. Virtue is its own reward.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Rewards and punishments for behaviour are productive when are socialising our children. But, threatening postmortem punishment to an atheist like Stalin is not going to stop his atrocities, just as an atheist who is good and kind is not going to be affected by the promise of a postmortem pie-in-the-sky reward. Virtue is its own reward.
                        Right so your universe is basically unjust, if you can get away with it in this life you win! That makes a mockery of both justice and morality.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Right so your universe is basically unjust, if you can get away with it in this life you win! That makes a mockery of both justice and morality.
                          So tell me seer, is the only reason for your good moral behavior based upon your hoped for reward in the after life?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            So tell me seer, is the only reason for your good moral behavior based upon your hoped for reward in the after life?
                            No Jim, but justice is either universal or it is not, if it is not it makes a mockery of morality.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              So a Stalin murders millions and dies a good old age, and that is just, that makes sense of morality?
                              So a non Christian dies and must suffer more than Stalins victims did all together? And once that is done it starts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and agian and again. Forever. Does that make sense of morality? I see why you need to point to the fact that we have a limited understanding of it. It certainly needs to be limited in order to allow for this.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                So a non Christian dies and must suffer more than Stalins victims did all together?
                                No Charles each man will suffer to the exact portion of their sin. Then death. Remember I am an Annihilationist. And yes, God will be perfectly just. Even if His sense of justice does not conform to yours.

                                And once that is done it starts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and agian and again. Forever. Does that make sense of morality? I see why you need to point to the fact that we have a limited understanding of it. It certainly needs to be limited in order to allow for this.
                                Even if hell is eternal, I suspect that there would be degrees of suffering. Since we are judged according to our works (whether saved or unsaved) I don't think a Joe Six Pack would share the same degree of punishment as a Hitler. In either case, like I said, whether eternal or temporal, I don't want to experience it.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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