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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Kinda like
    "What has been is what will be,
    and what has been done is what will be done,
    and there is nothing new under the sun."
    The internet has helped. Archeology anthropology and sociology can also help.
    sigpic

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Kinda like
      "What has been is what will be,
      and what has been done is what will be done,
      and there is nothing new under the sun."
      Sing that using the music from "Que Sera, Sera"

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Sing that using the music from "Que Sera, Sera"



        "What has been is what will be,
        and what has been done is what will be done,
        and there is nothing new under the sun."
        "And such were some of you."


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          What "new ideas" in the church have brought us closer to the Lord?
          There are a good many. Shall we start with the printing press and the unorthodox idea that we translate the Bible into the common tongue of the people? Now we all have Bibles because of that. It was not liked very much, or rather, the idea of printing the Bible in languages other than Latin was opposed quite vigorously by the Church. People died for the right to have a Bible translated into their own language.

          Do you believe that helped people get closer to the Lord?


          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            There are a good many. Shall we start with the printing press and the unorthodox idea that we translate the Bible into the common tongue of the people? Now we all have Bibles because of that. It was not liked very much, or rather, the idea of printing the Bible in languages other than Latin was opposed quite vigorously by the Church. People died for the right to have a Bible translated into their own language.

            Do you believe that helped people get closer to the Lord?


            Jim
            Have a wonderful evening, Jim.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Have a wonderful evening, Jim.
              Thanks, I hope you have a good evening too CP.

              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                "What has been is what will be,
                and what has been done is what will be done,
                and there is nothing new under the sun."
                "And such were some of you."


                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Kinda like
                "What has been is what will be,
                and what has been done is what will be done,
                and there is nothing new under the sun."
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Have a wonderful evening, Jim.
                  I'll have to admit that was an odd response

                  So, in addition to the idea of translating scriptures into the common language, some other ideas might be:

                  1) the idea that slavery was unacceptable, even though scripture tolerates it, leading to a world that is now mostly slavery free. The Southern Baptist church was formed out of the protest of southern slave holders over this idea.

                  2) the idea that the world is round and that there could be people living in the 'antipodes' (once believed to be unlikely as how would they get along standing on their heads)

                  3) the idea that disease was not caused by demons but by germs (how does this help people get closer to god? well, by better understanding God's universe, we are able to bring healing to suffering people - "if you've done it unto the least of these, you've don it unto me".

                  4) the idea that God's spirit did not stop operating in the world with the apostles, but that the various gifts of the spirit are in operation today (now this one will be controversial in fundamentalist circles, but for myself and so many people I know this one idea was the single most significant element in our spiritual lives in terms of bringing the reality of God's presence and reality to us. And without it, I doubt I would have survived the crisis of faith associated with realizing the scripture can't be dealt with literally when understanding creation)

                  Sometimes of course the ideas are not so much new as 'new to the time'.

                  (5) The introduction of modern missions into the protestant church was resisted at first because Calvanism would tend to imply people are predestined to become Christians, so what can missions do to change that?

                  https://petervanbrussel.wordpress.co...ions-movement/

                  (6) the idea of women taking stronger roles in the church and church leadership: Here is an old old idea (for in Christ there is neither jew nor greek, male nor female ... ) that has taken 2000 years to find a place in the church, even though there is evidence women held high position even in the first century church (Mary Magdeline, and then there is the elder whose name was changed from feminine to masculine to fit the dogma of the day ...

                  https://juniaproject.com/who-was-junia/

                  Source: link above

                  We know from the book of Romans that Junia served alongside Paul in his ministry, and was effective enough to be considered a threat to the local authorities, who imprisoned her along with Paul. Paul thought highly enough of Junia and her co-laborer Andronicus that he commended them both in Romans 16:7 as “noted among the apostles”.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  I could list countless more. But new ideas are often resisted by the church. Yet often those same new ideas lead more people to God, or improve our own understanding of God, and hence our own relationship with God.


                  Jim
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-12-2019, 08:12 AM.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    There are a good many. Shall we start with the printing press and the unorthodox idea that we translate the Bible into the common tongue of the people? Now we all have Bibles because of that. It was not liked very much, or rather, the idea of printing the Bible in languages other than Latin was opposed quite vigorously by the Church. People died for the right to have a Bible translated into their own language.

                    Do you believe that helped people get closer to the Lord?


                    Jim
                    FWIW, that's far from the only problem I have with the medieval Roman Catholic Church. Fortunately, that's not the only church that was around; the church of the period from which Rome had schismed didn't have that particular hang-up (for that matter, neither did pre-schism Rome - we still have portions of Scripture around in Old English).
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      I'll have to admit that was an odd response
                      Glad you recognize that, because we were (or at least I was) talking about teaching and theology, not technology, and more in terms of the current (contemporary) environment, not the entirety of Christendom.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Glad you recognize that, because we were (or at least I was) talking about teaching and theology, not technology, and more in terms of the current (contemporary) environment, not the entirety of Christendom.
                        The idea we should not translate the text is a theological one that people died trying to change. It was contrary to orthodox thought. The printing press allowed that idea to impact the common man.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          The idea we should not translate the text is a theological one that people died trying to change. It was contrary to orthodox thought. The printing press allowed that idea to impact the common man.

                          Jim
                          "the current (contemporary) environment"

                          but thanks
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            "the current (contemporary) environment"

                            but thanks
                            Slavery, gifts of the Spirit, and women's roles in the church are all the last 150 years, with women's roles in the church still in progress and the charasmatic renewal beginning just a few decades ago and still having effect. Civil rights I did not list but it also involved a great deal of theological haranguing in certain circles, especially in southern churches.

                            The idea that the only legitimate 'new' ideas affecting theology positively were in the past is wrong. And in a discussion like this, why would one dismiss examples of ideas from the past? They point to the reality there are ideas today that fill the same role. God is a living God, and he is alive and working in the world today, not just yesterday. And not only do we grow in God individually over our lives, the church itself grows and has grown in relationship to God over the millenia.

                            Jim
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-12-2019, 08:43 AM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I copied yours.



                              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Slavery, gifts of the Spirit, and women's roles in the church are all the last 150 years, with women's roles in the church still in progress. Civil rights I did not list but also involved a great deal of theological haranguing in certain circles, especially in southern churches.

                                The idea that the only legitimate 'new' ideas were in the past is wrong. And in a discussion like this, why would one dismiss examples of ideas from the past? They point to the reality there are ideas today that fill the same role. God is a living God, and he is alive and working in the world today, not just yesterday.

                                Jim
                                That might make a great discussion for another thread.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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