Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Facts and science or anointed handkerchiefs?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    It looks poorly on Christians when Browne and Falwell are the poster children for proudly flaunting the restrictions now that spring break is over but the fact that freedom of religion is a relevant principle is inescapable. This doesn't help Falwell here, but if this continues for months, I think Christians will be right to stop taking "no" for an answer for church attendance.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      once people start getting sick in these Word of Faith churches, and they can't be "cured" by the snake oil preacher, maybe they will finally realize what phony they have been following.

      Note, I do believe God can and does heal people, but NOT on command in a circus set up to promote sales of handkerchiefs, anointing oil and books.
      As a child in church I was told a story. God told a man that there was going to be a flood. God said to him: "Many lives will be lost, but I will save you." On the day of the flood a person offered to help this man who refused to be helped since God had promised to help him. Another person offered his help, the man refused to receive his help. A third person offered his help, same story. So, the person died. As soon as he arrived in heaven, he said to God "you promised to help me!" And God said: "Yes, and you refused to be helped all the three times I tried to help you."

      Now, I am not a preacher, but I think it is a rather interesting story. Why are those who rely on healing on command and phony stuff like that not just thankful that they are living in a world in which we can take our precortions in this situation and still get our food, still cover our basic needs and even talk on the phone, on webservices and the like? God has already saved them once by giving them knowledge on how to avoid the virus, or at least reduce the likelihood of getting affected. They should be thankful for that. If they believe in God, they should thank him for that.
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Charles View Post
        As a child in church I was told a story. God told a man that there was going to be a flood. God said to him: "Many lives will be lost, but I will save you." On the day of the flood a person offered to help this man who refused to be helped since God had promised to help him. Another person offered his help, the man refused to receive his help. A third person offered his help, same story. So, the person died. As soon as he arrived in heaven, he said to God "you promised to help me!" And God said: "Yes, and you refused to be helped all the three times I tried to help you."

        Now, I am not a preacher, but I think it is a rather interesting story. Why are those who rely on healing on command and phony stuff like that not just thankful that they are living in a world in which we can take our precortions in this situation and still get our food, still cover our basic needs and even talk on the phone, on webservices and the like? God has already saved them once by giving them knowledge on how to avoid the virus, or at least reduce the likelihood of getting affected. They should be thankful for that. If they believe in God, they should thank him for that.
        yes.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          It looks poorly on Christians when Browne and Falwell are the poster children for proudly flaunting the restrictions now that spring break is over but the fact that freedom of religion is a relevant principle is inescapable. This doesn't help Falwell here, but if this continues for months, I think Christians will be right to stop taking "no" for an answer for church attendance.
          This, however, will apply to all religions and, at least where I live, non-religious communities as well. So if you think Christians should at some point no longer take no for an answer, would you think associations of Muslims, atheists, agnostics, buddhists and whomever should enjoy the same freedom? And can you live with the consequences of that?
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            yes.
            The amen was in error, I just wanted to reply. Seems a bit too self focused to amen that post though I appreaciate that you agree.

            We don't agree very often. But, then again, I don't tell stories from church very often.
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              The amen was in error, I just wanted to reply. Seems a bit too self focused to amen that post though I appreaciate that you agree.

              We don't agree very often. But, then again, I don't tell stories from church very often.
              Maybe it really is the end of the world!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Maybe it really is the end of the world!
                No man knows the hour!
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  This, however, will apply to all religions and, at least where I live, non-religious communities as well. So if you think Christians should at some point no longer take no for an answer, would you think associations of Muslims, atheists, agnostics, buddhists and whomever should enjoy the same freedom? And can you live with the consequences of that?
                  Why would I not think so?
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Why would I not think so?
                    Well, I did not mean to be unfair, but I have talked to people who seem to think only Christians should have that right (because they are right, important to society and the rest, while people like me are just spreading falsehoods and stuff like that). I did not mean to imply you were think along those lines and I am sorry if it appeared like that.

                    Perhaps the last question is the most important then. Since we can then all meet again, how do you deal with the consequences it is going to have and how would you explain that you put other people's lives at risk in order to worship a God who also told you to take care of those in need and who will now be exposed to danger?
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      Well, I did not mean to be unfair, but I have talked to people who seem to think only Christians should have that right (because they are right, important to society and the rest, while people like me are just spreading falsehoods and stuff like that). I did not mean to imply you were think along those lines and I am sorry if it appeared like that.

                      Perhaps the last question is the most important then. Since we can then all meet again, how do you deal with the consequences it is going to have and how would you explain that you put other people's lives at risk in order to worship a God who also told you to take care of those in need and who will now be exposed to danger?
                      Remember that this mass quarantine exercise is only experiment. And the measures taken are extreme ones when it may only be necessary to just protect the older population in typical fashion or slightly stepped up fashion. Are we to harm all of society rather than take more conservative precautions?

                      The big experiment happening now is whether governments can work out ways to take away the rights of people. Many governors are happy trying this out.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                        Remember that this mass quarantine exercise is only experiment. And the measures taken are extreme ones when it may only be necessary to just protect the older population in typical fashion or slightly stepped up fashion. Are we to harm all of society rather than take more conservative precautions?

                        The big experiment happening now is whether governments can work out ways to take away the rights of people. Many governors are happy trying this out.
                        And I have no problem with different ideas on how to solve the problem. My problem would be with people acting against the law. Especially when that law is based on experts views on the how we can best solve this problem. If we are all going to have our own ideas about the "experiment" it is truly going to be an "experiment". Freedom of religion should not be your (or my) freedom to go against the law.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          And I have no problem with different ideas on how to solve the problem. My problem would be with people acting against the law. Especially when that law is based on experts views on the how we can best solve this problem. If we are all going to have our own ideas about the "experiment" it is truly going to be an "experiment". Freedom of religion should not be your (or my) freedom to go against the law.
                          Technically it is the law going against the law. The highest law is found in the constitutions. So it is not the churches going against the law ... it is the the problem of governors assuming powers which may be inappropriate and, worse, unwarranted.

                          The idea of the government making laws for "public safety" is rather recent. The idea of sequestering the whole society is unheard of.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            Technically it is the law going against the law. The highest law is found in the constitutions. So it is not the churches going against the law ... it is the the problem of governors assuming powers which may be inappropriate and, worse, unwarranted.
                            That is for the courts to decide I would guess (or hope) and I am not an expert on this.

                            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            The idea of the government making laws for "public safety" is rather recent. The idea of sequestering the whole society is unheard of.
                            Unfortunately, in this case, it seems it is appropriate given the possible consequences.
                            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Charles View Post

                              Unfortunately, in this case, it seems it is appropriate given the possible consequences.
                              This is a bit of the question we are examining in other threads. So far it seems that we have the equivalent of a season like unto a severe flu situation.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                So, echoing the idea that taking the corona virus seriously is politicaly motivated (where did you hear that before?) a pastor held a service gathering over 1.000 people.

                                If anyone thought the anti science, the "politicaly motivated" or "fake news" statements were to be used without actual consequences they were wrong all along and the consequences are going to grow bigger and bigger.



                                So, it definitely sounds like an echo of what we have heard before. The people attending would be given "anointed handkerchiefs" believed to heal them.

                                Katherine Stewart shared her opinion on this and other topics in an interesting opinion piece called: The Religious Right’s Hostility to Science Is Crippling Our Coronavirus Response






                                And having read the responses and absurd attempts to justify Trump on tweb this part is really essential:



                                And for those who like to deny that corona virus was ever denied as a serious threat this is a nice place to start:



                                Guess who said that... Of course a prominent Evangelical.... Jerry Falwell Jr.

                                Other statements follow along the line. Here is Dr. Hotze: “This whole thing is concocted by the mainstream media, the fake news, to try to bring down Don Trump.” https://www.mediamatters.org/coronav...ted-deep-state

                                The consequences are unfortunately real and will have to be paid by real human beings. Reality (unfortunately in this case) will not listen to the lies, does not care about the lies. It is what it is with no regard to all the lies.

                                As Stewart notes:



                                Fortunately many Christians don't think along those lines but many white Evangelical "Christians" bear responsibility for promoting and supporting actions and ways of thinking that helped worsen this mess and make it even worse than it needed to be.
                                Ya gotta remember, mega churches make mega bucks and their pastors are usually mega rich. It's an essential business!

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                152 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                399 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                373 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X